Want to understand what Trump is doing? Part 2

Ukraine was part of Poland for longer than it was part of Russia. Russia recognised Ukraine as an independent state in 1991 and it was one of the Soviet states in the USSR, not part of Russia. It doesn't help to over-simplify the history of a country to prove a point. If Putin succeeds in gaining big chunks of Ukraine by having superior strength, it puts many other countries at risk. IMO we and the rest of Europe failed Ukraine by not supporting them adequately.

LizzieDrip

Trump is trying to twist history; trying to make us disbelieve events that we’ve witnessed with our own eyes.

This is what dictators do!

It’s what violent, abusive narcissists do … “I had to hit you. You made me do it because of what you said. It’s your fault that I hurt you. You stared it”.

The man is a monster

Absolutely

ronib

Ukraine was part of Russia and for some reason, had been given away. We know so little about the history and details of the gift and how antagonisms arose. There’s no good waxing lyrical with Kipling imo. A hard look at the history behind the conflict is more important.

Re-writing history there

foxie48

Ukraine was part of Poland for longer than it was part of Russia. Russia recognised Ukraine as an independent state in 1991 and it was one of the Soviet states in the USSR, not part of Russia. It doesn't help to over-simplify the history of a country to prove a point. If Putin succeeds in gaining big chunks of Ukraine by having superior strength, it puts many other countries at risk. IMO we and the rest of Europe failed Ukraine by not supporting them adequately.

This! 👏👏👏

foxie48

Ukraine was part of Poland for longer than it was part of Russia. Russia recognised Ukraine as an independent state in 1991 and it was one of the Soviet states in the USSR, not part of Russia. It doesn't help to over-simplify the history of a country to prove a point. If Putin succeeds in gaining big chunks of Ukraine by having superior strength, it puts many other countries at risk. IMO we and the rest of Europe failed Ukraine by not supporting them adequately.

👏👏👏👏👏

I don’t have time to rewrite history today but the bottom line is that there has been fighting between Ukraine and Russia from 2014. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to try to resolve this conflict but maybe a different approach is needed now? And urgently?

Wrong again.

There has not been fighting since 2014.

Putin annexed Crimea in 2014. The west let it slide (mistakenly in my view).

The invasion by Putin of Ukraine sovereign territory started 3 years ago.

Ukraine bears no fault in this.

Whitewavemark2

Wrong again.

There has not been fighting since 2014.

Putin annexed Crimea in 2014. The west let it slide (mistakenly in my view).

The invasion by Putin of Ukraine sovereign territory started 3 years ago.

Ukraine bears no fault in this.

Agreed

If anyone is interested at some figures

www.crisisgroup.org
Concurs with 14000 deaths in Ukraine from 2014 to 22.

It seems that now the rules of engagement have changed, an aggressor can invade your country regardless of the whole question of sovereignty but once allies feel the help they have given to the invaded countries is enough it has all just become too much of an expensive faff is ok to let the president of the US reward the aggressor and set a very dangerous precedent for the rest of us.
Good job we didn’t have these rules of engagement during the Second World War or Hitler would have enjoyed tea in Buckingham palace.

Babs03

It seems that now the rules of engagement have changed, an aggressor can invade your country regardless of the whole question of sovereignty but once allies feel the help they have given to the invaded countries is enough it has all just become too much of an expensive faff is ok to let the president of the US reward the aggressor and set a very dangerous precedent for the rest of us.
Good job we didn’t have these rules of engagement during the Second World War or Hitler would have enjoyed tea in Buckingham palace.

I could not agree more Babs, a completely disgraceful situation!!

How would Trump have dealt with the attack on Pearl Harbor?

Babs03

It seems that now the rules of engagement have changed, an aggressor can invade your country regardless of the whole question of sovereignty but once allies feel the help they have given to the invaded countries is enough it has all just become too much of an expensive faff is ok to let the president of the US reward the aggressor and set a very dangerous precedent for the rest of us.
Good job we didn’t have these rules of engagement during the Second World War or Hitler would have enjoyed tea in Buckingham palace.

It is beginning to get surreal.

Things in Ukraine are about to escalate IMO.

After Trump blamed Ukraine for the war, he is now calling Zelensky a dictator for not having free and fair elections.

So the America which was so adverse to Communism is now joined at the hip with Putin! Will the American people put up with this? Poor Ukraine, attacked by a monster, invaded,and now attacked again by another enemy as Trump accuses them and their heroic president of causing the war. You couldn’t make it up. One thing is for sure we should withdraw any support we ever had for American bases in the U.K.

Trump sounds completely deranged and he's definitely put Marco Rubio in a very difficult position. It's not often I agree with BJ but Europe needs to use Putin's money to fund the support for Ukraine.

The BBC has fact checked pretty much everything Trump has said today and everything is a lie.

vintage1950

How would Trump have dealt with the attack on Pearl Harbor?

Well we know that he wouldn't have been fighting, that's for sure.

USA and Russia aligning - harks back to Stalin and Hitler. It won’t last.

Trump's attack on Zelensky is him throwing his toys out of the pram because he promised everyone he'd end the war on day one and he's failed.

On the CNN live feed now, some of the Republican senators are openly saying that they disagree with his stance on Ukraine. I wonder how much momentum they will gather.

Trump and Putin both want the same from Ukraine and that's the trillions of dollars worth of resources it has. Trump would be very happy to let Putin keep the resources in the area that he is currently holding as long as he has cut a deal with Zelensky for a share of what remains. Zelensky won't play ball so Trump is having a tantrum. Disgusting lack of moral turpitude. Anyone who thinks Trump is motivated by saving lives is sadly completely wrong IMO. Everything that Trump does is motivated by a dollar sign and you can guarantee that someone in the Trump camp will be there ready to pocket it.

Is Trump a Russian asset?

WWM2 There have always been rumours just as there are with regard to BJ but who knows? Trump certainly could have put himself into compromising situations and/or been willing to break US laws, so it's possible.

I think so Whitewave, but that is just my opinion.