Syrian asylum seeker arrested after boy, 14, killed and four injured in Austria stabbing.

petra

BevSec

I thought the southport killings were carried out by an immigrant?

It’s obvious from your posts that you wanted to believe that the Southport killer was an immigrant.
You’re a true success story of how social media can sway your thinking.

I have no problem with however you wish to think of me.

Somebody who was born in the UK is definitively not an immigrant BevSec. It’s a very straightforward, legal definition of a person’s status.

woodenspoon

J52

BevSec

I thought the southport killings were carried out by an immigrant?

Welsh! Born in Cardiff.
Maybe there’s border control no one told us about.

Welsh. Born in Cardiff.

He may well be but he’s not is he. He’s second generation immigrant. He’s no more British than I’d be a fish if born on the sand. He is Rwandan, like his parents.

He shouldn’t be in this country, nor should they. Valdo Calocane is another. These individuals would not be committing these heinous crimes if they lived in their home countries. Mental health my eye. Nutters is what they are, evil through and through. And the same with the Afghan in Germany and the one in Austria.

I absolutely agree with this post.

Casdon

The point is, there is violence everywhere, on our streets, and everywhere else. You please yourself what you think the difference is, but the fact is that the end result is exactly the same, people die and get seriously injured. It happens daily, all over Europe, and every situation is different. Some killings are drug or drink related, some due to mental illness, some crimes of passion, some religiously motivated, some revenge etc etc. that makes no difference to the end result for the victim.

It isn’t a matter of a poster ‘pleasing themselves’ about the difference, there clearly is a difference with religious extremism killings of strangers to other things like MH killings.
There’s a whole MI5 dept devoted to this very thing in the UK and likely to be the same in many other countries but they can’t always find everyone before they commit these murders.
There will always be MH murders of random innocent people but the killings by Muslim extremists around the world are ramping up alarmingly.In the case of any failed asylum seekers this could be stopped by detaining and deportation immediately following the decision but is harder in the case of those who have been granted leave to stay.

Rula

You can ignore these attacks and claim it's unfair when stabbings by locals don't get reported on but FGT has successfully pointed out why there is less interest.

The fact is Europe is in somewhat of a disaster of its own making.

I'm sure you all are aware of the issues in France, Sweden and Germany. Italy has voted in the way that many other countries look set to follow. People are leaning towards the right.

Young people are who are important now. Not us. It's the oldies keeping the left going. But we'll be gone in a couple of decades. And our opinion will be irrelevant.

Very true.

I agree that something must be done to protect the public against random attacks, wherever they come from. The circumstances are different in every case, the threats come from British citizens, people who aren’t but are here legally, from people who have come here illegally, and from people who are visiting. Remember the poor woman who was poisoned and died because she had picked up what she thought was a perfume bottle from a bin in a park left by Russian hitmen?
What I’d like to see is a recognition that this is a multi faceted issue, and more emphasis on finding solutions rather than jumping on the bandwagon of ‘it’s illegal immigrants’ all the time, because that is not the reality.

But there is a reality of stabbings and bombings and vehicles used as weapons by Muslim extremists in Europe, by failed asylum seekers, by those granted asylum and those born in those countries to parents given leave to stay.
Saying it’s all multifaceted ( killings) seems to be saying that we mustn’t look this problem in the face, when both mass immigration and fear of these extremists are driving Europe to the far right in response.

It is an indisputable fact that some of these atrocities are carried out by people who are either in the process of applying for leave to remain or have already been granted it.

It cannot and should not be ignored or brushed under the proverbial carpet.

Most countries have their own home grown monsters who carry out unspeakable acts of evil, that have to be dealt with quickly and harshly.

The west as a whole needs a more vigorous and in-depth investigation process regarding asylum claims.

HavanaMoon

Wyllow3

Yes, not defending it, but if it had been a stabbing by Austrian nationals drunks or a gang in a big city centre in Vienna - or a substantial gang shooting in New York by US citizens for the matter - we wouldn't have heard of it.

Are you sure of this? Proof?

Googled it and found. in one minute multi gangland murders reported in just the last 3 weeks in the USA

Here are just 3 - you heard of them? No, they are so ubiquitous.

abc7ny.com/post/14-alleged-gang-members-coney-island-sheepshead-bay-brooklyn-charged-20-shootings-2-years/15869319/

www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/eleven-members-bronx-washside-gang-sentenced-murder-atempted-murder-assault

www.fox5ny.com/news/bloodhound-brims-gang-takedown-brooklyn

Vance should look to matters at home before he sounds off. There are more guns in the USA than people and plenty of home grown violence. His regime won't touch them.

And I bet you didn't hear of the Charlottesville car attack in the USA
"The Charlottesville car attack was a white supremacist terrorist attack[12] perpetrated on August 12, 2017,

when James Alex Fields Jr. deliberately drove his car into a crowd of people peacefully protesting the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, killing one person and injuring 35.[4][13]

Fields, 20, had previously espoused neo-Nazi and white supremacist beliefs,[7] and drove from Ohio to attend the rally" (wiki)

Rula

You can ignore these attacks and claim it's unfair when stabbings by locals don't get reported on but FGT has successfully pointed out why there is less interest.

The fact is Europe is in somewhat of a disaster of its own making.

I'm sure you all are aware of the issues in France, Sweden and Germany. Italy has voted in the way that many other countries look set to follow. People are leaning towards the right.

Young people are who are important now. Not us. It's the oldies keeping the left going. But we'll be gone in a couple of decades. And our opinion will be irrelevant.

Goodness, I really have to disagree.

Many many older people are right leaning, many younger people are left leaning and far more in both cohorts are centralists.

Violent and fatal crimes are a huge problem worldwide and I certainly don’t have the answers.

Sadly, when the perpetrator is a refugee/aslyum seeker it fuels the fires and many are of those people who already despise migrants are inflamed, perhaps for the wrong reasons.

Many asylum seekers are genuinely good people, who have witnessed things so awful we cannot even imagine.

A very few migrants are violent criminals or politically radicalised and these people have no place in decent society and if there was a swift way to “weed these out” then I’d certainly welcome this.

We also, like all countries, have our fair share of “home grown” violent citizens.

All of our governments should be working together to get resolutions in these migrants home countries, peace keeping, trying to make their homelands safe and peaceful places.

These vile horrible horrific murders are, thank god, relatively rare. To put this in perspective in 2024 in the UK, approximately 2 domestic murders took place EVERY week.

According to Google stats in the year 2023, most up to date so far, almost 300 murders/homicides were committed in Austria and in Germany, 300.

I don’t recall reading about many of these aforementioned murders in our press.

ANY needless death is a tragedy, I think we need to think more about the victims and less about the perpetrators.

My heart goes out to the families losing their loved ones.

BevSec
Woodenspoin

It doesn’t really matter what you say or think, this young man who committed this appalling crime WAS British.

He and his brother and parents were decent people until this horrific attack, he has been found to have been known for a few years to possibly pose a danger, no steps were taken by the authorities to prevent him actually playing out his sickening crime.

GrannyGravy13

It is an indisputable fact that some of these atrocities are carried out by people who are either in the process of applying for leave to remain or have already been granted it.

It cannot and should not be ignored or brushed under the proverbial carpet.

Most countries have their own home grown monsters who carry out unspeakable acts of evil, that have to be dealt with quickly and harshly.

The west as a whole needs a more vigorous and in-depth investigation process regarding asylum claims.

I agree, we ALL need to work together, sharing information and taking steps to protect all our citizens, not just blame all migrants/refugees and tar them all with the same brush.

Authorities from all countries need to work in tandem, will this happen? Sadly, unlikely, especially when you’re dealing with the likes of Trump, Musk, Vance and Putin. Far far easier to “round up all the migrants” and stick them somewhere else.

Ironically America is 99% migrants, as is Australia, and it’s not too long ago historically that these countries were filled with migrants.

Oh the irony!

No Cossy we def need to think more about the perpetrators than the victims ( as a country, not on a personal level.)
It’s only by doing that very thing that plots by extremists can be foiled.

Cossy

BevSec
Woodenspoin

It doesn’t really matter what you say or think, this young man who committed this appalling crime WAS British.

He and his brother and parents were decent people until this horrific attack, he has been found to have been known for a few years to possibly pose a danger, no steps were taken by the authorities to prevent him actually playing out his sickening crime.

You don’t know they were decent people. Why were they moved from Wales to Lancashire? Look at the conditions they were living in. You know nothing about them, other than what we are so far permitted to know. There will be much more that we don’t know.

My father was Welsh. That doesn’t make me Welsh. His parents were Rwandan. He looks Rwandan, not British. Being born here doesn’t make you Welsh or British.

Although I do realise that the US has a big problem with gun crime, I still think we should listen to the warnings given by Vance about mass migration, as this latest appalling individual in Austria proves.

Under Trump’s orders, immigrants who commit horrific crimes, ‘the worst of the worst’ get sent to Guantanamo bay.

Why can’t we do something similar?

FriedGreenTomatoes2

I imagine the two men got into an altercation because of hot head views/assisted by alcohol, maybe even drugs were involved. They clashed - one on one. A fight.

The woman who died from being shot in the head was a victim of a crime of passion. Her ex attacked her.

These killings (Austria, Germany) are targeted attacks on unknown individuals (several) by people with a hatred in general for Western values, aided and abetted by reading material on line - as the Austrian Police said - to encourage random slaughtering.

Sorry but I cannot conflate the two instances with what is happening right now in Europe. It’s like comparing apples with pears.

Agree.

We do need to differentiate imo between attacks on "individuals" - as compared to attacks on our "Society/way of life".

The only plus side to this is that it's another Syrian that did what he could to sort out the situation and drove his car at the maniac and was trying to help us. I am certainly noticing that over the last few years it's become very clear that some from the Middle East are assimilating into our societies and appreciating us having modern/liberal societies. Then there's the "others" - the ones that are attacking us and our values. I'm someone personally that would see an area in one of our bigger cities where I could barely spot us and our way of life and, if anyone tried to tell me to dress/act outside "our" way I'd ramp it up a notch and, even at my age, deliberately walk through in short skirts/low necklines and eating outdoors at any time of year - because it's OUR country and OUR way of life in Britain and I won't have anyone else try and alter me to some other countries ways.

It started a while back and one of the first instances I can recall is loads of young Swedes going out for a typical night out in Sweden (it was outdoors and think it was a New Years Eve celebration?) and it was Swedish women that were attacked and Middle Eastern men that did the attacking and I honestly think that was done to try and stop our Western women living normal lives (ie having our social lives) at that event.

So yep....some are taking part in our culture/living pretty much in our way and respecting our Western countries - but others are attacking us and/or trying to force their way of life onto us in our countries. Added being the worry as we have seen more "modern" Middle Eastern countries being thrown back to the Stone Ages - Iran and Afghanistan for instance. Yep.....I do believe there are people that want to force their ways onto us.

Of course as we all know, the answer is to stop them getting to Europe and here in the first place.

I am a little more optimistic now some European countries are leaning towards Right wing governments with hopefully enough backbone to tackle this huge problem.

The majority of these crimes: bombing people at festivals, rampant stranger knife crime, ramming multiple people in cars are rarely, if ever, carried out by White British citizens. That is a fact. Like it or not.
Then, we have to pick up the pieces, continue to house them and their dependants or family, pay for their treatment where they are incarcerated, have endless public enquiries and handwringing, blaming systems, the NHS, whatever.

The fact is indisputable- if they were not here they couldn’t commit the crimes in the first place. No amount of bleeding heart liberalism can alter that fact. And my sympathies are with these innocent victims and always will be.

Of course there are CariadAgain and anyone who tries to turn a blind eye to this for the sake of what? niceness? is very wrong.It’s there, it exists and it’s a big problem for the West.
Assimilation is the key and meantime vigilance.Added to that all Western governments closing the gates to all who they don’t want and deporting all with criminal backgrounds.

Oreo

No Cossy we def need to think more about the perpetrators than the victims ( as a country, not on a personal level.)
It’s only by doing that very thing that plots by extremists can be foiled.

Our authorities and govt should be thinking of the perps, we as citizens, should consider the victims as more important.

woodenspoon

J52

BevSec

I thought the southport killings were carried out by an immigrant?

Welsh! Born in Cardiff.
Maybe there’s border control no one told us about.

Welsh. Born in Cardiff.

He may well be but he’s not is he. He’s second generation immigrant. He’s no more British than I’d be a fish if born on the sand. He is Rwandan, like his parents.

He shouldn’t be in this country, nor should they. Valdo Calocane is another. These individuals would not be committing these heinous crimes if they lived in their home countries. Mental health my eye. Nutters is what they are, evil through and through. And the same with the Afghan in Germany and the one in Austria.

I was just about to go off and google to see if he was really Welsh or no. Thanks for telling us he isnt at all.

We are whatever nationality the last generation or two of our family are. Or, as my mother put it, "I'm English, your father is English - and that means you are English". Well she didn't put it quite like that - as her exact words were in accordance with her personal thinking of "I'm Cornish, your father is English - that means you are half-Cornish, half English". Cue for my response of "MOTHER - you're English.....I'm 100% English". My mothers parents before her were English. My fathers parents before him were English and both sides we go back centuries as British - apart from one solitary Dutch woman a couple of hundred years back somewhere or other down the line.

I don't know quite how many generations back one goes on the ancestry line to figure out what nationality one is - but you do go back down that line to know what you are. Any other "nationality" is self-identifying as a different nationality because you have a passport for it. But "passport nationality" can be taken off you. The British government is entitled to take a "passport nationality" off you and leave you with just the nationality you really are. eg they couldnt take my passport off me - because I have no other "nationality" and no other country that is "mine".

Isn’t that just what I said?
But since we can’t do anything to help, all we can do is mourn their passing.As a country we def need to think more about the perps and what we’re not getting right.

Cossy

BevSec
Woodenspoin

It doesn’t really matter what you say or think, this young man who committed this appalling crime WAS British.

He and his brother and parents were decent people until this horrific attack, he has been found to have been known for a few years to possibly pose a danger, no steps were taken by the authorities to prevent him actually playing out his sickening crime.

How do we know they were decent people?

We know nothing of their past in Rwanda, his father could have been a war criminal seeking refuge in the UK.

They were living in a house that looked squalid, their son had ricin under his bed and a probably more knives than Gordon Ramsay.

They only decent thing we know the Father did was stop his son returning to his school to seek revenge.
He probably did this because he knew his son was liable to kill.

Yet he didn’t report his son.

I would question their decency, going to. Church once a week does not make you a decent person.

Checking the most up to date sources -

It's the right wing press in our country called it "terrorist". Local Authorities are saying, "At this stage, there isn't any evidence linking the incident to terrorism, authorities said."

I hope the swift actions of the young Syrian who rammed the suspect are appearing in these "terrorist" reports too, because it shows decent people from all backgrounds are shocked.

Where is the evidence it was "terrorist"? (or an "attack on our values" as opposed to "lone wolf")

abcnews.go.com/International/14-year-killed-4-injured-knife-attack-austria/story?id=118864523

I know several people who attended a catholic church to get their children into catholic schools. They were not catholics, it was a means to an end for them. Rather like the Christian converts who hoodwinked vicars into baptising them as Christ into stay in this country. Several cases of that have been reported.