A view from the other side of the same side - Israel.

More The Telegraph- conservative.

Even if we all know that stats and polls have to be taken with a pinch, even a large one, of salt- and if there is a margin of error, even if substantial, 4-6% is VERY VERY low.

Some of the video clips shown as she speaks show IDF soldiers jubilating and celebrating as bombs hit and destroy large buildings, whole areas.

And one of the comments hit home

''So many outpourings of rage about the mistaken remains of an Israeli woman, but not a single world of sympathy for the Gazan woman whose shredded remains were no doubt found alongside her, both murdered by Indiscriminate Israeli bombings of civilians.

Should we not mourn the deaths of every man, woman and child in this tragic war?

In Dec 2023, Israel informed the families of Nik Beizer, Ron Sherman, & Elia Toledano that Hamas had murdered them in captivity.

Ron Sherman's mother kept digging into it, & discovered the IDF lied & killed her son & the 2 others by "asphyxiation" when they "gassed" the tunnel they were held in.
Last Sep, the IDF finally admitted they killed those 3 in an airstrike & had lied about it.
What tipped the mother off is that a CT scan found "no gunshot, stab wounds, shrapnel, fractures, external wounds & no signs of strangulation", so the IDF narrative that Hamas had killed them "with their bare hands" didn't fly.
Earlier this month, Israel's +972 newspaper revealed that Israel was indiscriminately bombing areas in Gaza with heavy rockets to deliberately "flood" the targeted areas "with lethal fumes" that kill the target by asphyxiation.

IDF Sargent Ron Sherman's mother put a tombstone on his grave that read: "kidnapped, abandoned, & sacrificed in Gaza by the [Israeli] government in the Oct 7, 2023 disaster". The IDF took that tombstone away.''

Rula

silverlining48

Thank you for putting this on Claremont. It is powerful and thought provoking. Katie is a brave woman.

Annie you should listen, not pass. What she as an Israeli woman says is worth listening to.

Why is it worth listening to?

So I'm Jewish.

Am I worth listening to? You wouldn't agree with my attitude. So you'd say no, I wasn't worth listening to

I've lived in Israel. I used to be part of the chaperones who took very ill Palestinians to Israel for medical treatment. Hundreds. Cancer patients, young and old.

Do you know about that?

The OP informed us the other day that Israelis want Palestinians dead. Which is totally untrue.

So I'm not going to pay any attention to someone so ignorant of truth

We know about it now Rula. Thank you for speaking out. My feeling is that people should listen to every voice. If we don't, we won't know the truth.

Am afraid you are wasting your breath Claremont. The thing is I was devastated by the deaths of the young mother and children, but also the nameless young Palestinian woman who was sent by mistake.
But have realised that the simple fact is that many see Muslim lives as cheap, because they are seen as not being like us, nowhere near as civilised, savage and brutal, even medieval as was expressed the other day.
They don’t feel the way we do or treat their women the same. So who cares if their lives
are extinguished.
Perhaps people see Sadiq Khan in a similar way or the many Muslim women who are MPs, lawyers, teachers, and doctors/surgeons. Maybe they feel that these people are still ‘less’ than non Muslims, somehow not quite the same.
Am positive that many do.
So their suffering and deaths are - like the nameless young Palestinian woman - not worthy of noting.
‘Prick me, do I not bleed?’
How ironic.

Yes, I published a letter written a a Jewish Israeli friend about the poor woman sent back, whom they said was not the one. Playing cruel games- as it turns out the family totally confirms it was her.

I got the letter deleted, as it was a translation from Hebrew, and not very good, talking about 'the miserable woman' which was sounded all wrong in translation. The letter said that the woman sent 'whether Israeli hostage, or Palestinian' was probably a mother, a daughter, a friend - and that a dead woman, or another, blown up by bombs, was still a human- and neither worth more than the other.

I suppose a better translation would 'wretched', or 'torn human being'.

Right now I do not feel threatened by Middle Eastern cultures of Muslims in general, I feel threatened by the rise of fascism in the US and other countries, the Nazi salutes and permission to fly the Nazi flag in schools. The cosying up to autocrats like Putin. The simple fact is that white supremacists are the ones to watch. As they were back in the 1930s. And the constant scapegoating of Muslims in western societies adds fuel to the fire.
If people are looking for an enemy in the middle east they are looking in the wrong direction. Again.

GrannyGravy13

Galaxy

I dont take the moral decisions I have taken because someone is Jewish or Palestian, I am able to make those moral decisions myself. Everytime I read for example the hostages thread, I move further away from the progressives. As I said currently Boris Johnson is producing a statement on the Bibas family that I 100 % agree with.

Exactly!

Me too.

And your account Rula.

Babs, same here. The current threat of WW3 does not emanate from Muslims or Palestinians.

Netanyahu is up to his ears and beyond with Trump and Putin. As shown above, the vast majority of Israelis don't trust him at all, and many blame him for the hostages.

Rula

silverlining48

Thank you for putting this on Claremont. It is powerful and thought provoking. Katie is a brave woman.

Annie you should listen, not pass. What she as an Israeli woman says is worth listening to.

Why is it worth listening to?

So I'm Jewish.

Am I worth listening to? You wouldn't agree with my attitude. So you'd say no, I wasn't worth listening to

I've lived in Israel. I used to be part of the chaperones who took very ill Palestinians to Israel for medical treatment. Hundreds. Cancer patients, young and old.

Do you know about that?

The OP informed us the other day that Israelis want Palestinians dead. Which is totally untrue.

So I'm not going to pay any attention to someone so ignorant of truth

Rula
Some people think there is only one truth. That what they believe is the truth but in fact it is just one point of view.

Well done for all you were trying to do to help others.

and this is sad, because if you are not prepared to listen to other pov
As are many others, sadly.

I'm not surprised. If the hostages' welfare was his No 1 priority then there is no way he would have acted as he has.

Rula👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

All these ‘letters from Jews’ provided by Claremont often mentioned as young friends or friends of a friend and all with one thing in common, how they all hate the war on Gaza give me as a Jew, an ironic smile.Thread after thread started with the aim of denigrating Israel and the IDF.
Not that it matters, it’s just stuff on a forum but you got to wonder why.I read many comments usually headed ‘oh yes it was terrible what happened, the over a thousand murders and over two hundred hostages taken but’ and so on.

Oreo I read but as Denial ,and if an error in translation why not more than one error !

Oreo

*Rula*👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

All these ‘letters from Jews’ provided by Claremont often mentioned as young friends or friends of a friend and all with one thing in common, how they all hate the war on Gaza give me as a Jew, an ironic smile.Thread after thread started with the aim of denigrating Israel and the IDF.
Not that it matters, it’s just stuff on a forum but you got to wonder why.I read many comments usually headed ‘oh yes it was terrible what happened, the over a thousand murders and over two hundred hostages taken but’ and so on.

Actually those Jewish Israeli friends are not young, just a couple of years younger than us. The relevance? They post their own material, and as Jewish Holocaus Historians and specialists, materials obtained by their Jewish Israeli friends, not mine.

Why do I repost? Because the Israelis don't allow Journalists or independent Charities like the Red Cross and others, to be in Gaza. News, and blatant distortion and propaganda from Netanyahu's side are everywhere- but the other side it stiffled, hidden and even cancelled or forbidden, hidden.

As in this case

Israel won't let journalists into Gaza because they don't want the world to see the evidence of their crimes. Now the Genocidal Zionist state has managed to get a documentary showing the suffering of Palestinians removed from the BBC iPlayer. A sinister and calculated move to prevent us seeing the immense suffering inflicted by Israel.

And did you watch and listen

fb.watch/xVKoyKPGCv/

I suppose not.

The boy in the documentary on Gaza is the son of a Hamas deputy minister,

That documentary was,unknown to the BBC ( but not to the production team who made it) facilitated by hamas and the main person in it, a boy the son of a hamas minister of agriculture.That’s why, when they found out, the Beeb pulled it.So not, as you claim, sinister at all.

Seems Zionists are responsible. I fear hysteria.

Jonathan Sacerdoti (born 1980) is a British broadcaster, journalist, and TV producer. He covers stories relating to the United Kingdom and Europe, as well as terrorism and extremism stories, race relations,[1] Middle East analysis[2] and the British royal family.[3] He is also a campaigner against antisemitism.

The man who Claremont calls a ‘genocidal Zionist’ , he is a Jew!

Claremont

Cossy, I am not a Jew, nor am I a Palestinian. And I am certainly NOT a supporter of Hamas either. But why should the pain, suffering and treatment of one side be any more 'valid' than that of the other side. Especially as now the plan is to expel them from their land forever, those who have not yet been bombed to smithereens, without a right of return.

An eye for an eye, hate for hate - and we all become blind, deaf and dumb. We with them.

I’m agreeing with you.

IMO, no one nation or cohort of our fellow humans should be singled out for any reason and attempts made to wipe them off the earth.

I feel this way about all nations, bar terrorist fractions.

Sorry, forgot to add this

youtu.be/5uUkiRtEA34?si=tVlpwwol-AWSE1uC

Doubt you can read it, the interview is on uTube

Claremont

Cossy, I am not a Jew, nor am I a Palestinian. And I am certainly NOT a supporter of Hamas either. But why should the pain, suffering and treatment of one side be any more 'valid' than that of the other side. Especially as now the plan is to expel them from their land forever, those who have not yet been bombed to smithereens, without a right of return.

An eye for an eye, hate for hate - and we all become blind, deaf and dumb. We with them.

The only comments I can make with honesty are that no one groups suffering is more valid than another, BUT Jewish people appear to have been tortured/targeted/massacred for far too many centuries.

Like many others here I wish for peace across the world, an end to terrorism, the end of corrupt govts who use their own people for their own gain.

Naive I know, but this is my desire!

Babs03

Am afraid you are wasting your breath Claremont. The thing is I was devastated by the deaths of the young mother and children, but also the nameless young Palestinian woman who was sent by mistake.
But have realised that the simple fact is that many see Muslim lives as cheap, because they are seen as not being like us, nowhere near as civilised, savage and brutal, even medieval as was expressed the other day.
They don’t feel the way we do or treat their women the same. So who cares if their lives
are extinguished.
Perhaps people see Sadiq Khan in a similar way or the many Muslim women who are MPs, lawyers, teachers, and doctors/surgeons. Maybe they feel that these people are still ‘less’ than non Muslims, somehow not quite the same.
Am positive that many do.
So their suffering and deaths are - like the nameless young Palestinian woman - not worthy of noting.
‘Prick me, do I not bleed?’
How ironic.

Very good post Babs3.. I agree completely with you..

Babs03

Right now I do not feel threatened by Middle Eastern cultures of Muslims in general, I feel threatened by the rise of fascism in the US and other countries, the Nazi salutes and permission to fly the Nazi flag in schools. The cosying up to autocrats like Putin. The simple fact is that white supremacists are the ones to watch. As they were back in the 1930s. And the constant scapegoating of Muslims in western societies adds fuel to the fire.
If people are looking for an enemy in the middle east they are looking in the wrong direction. Again.

👏👏👏👏👏👏

Prevent dont agree with you.

Why are Jewish people afraid to admit they are Jewish ? Why are synagogues being burnt and defaced? Why are Jewish people being forced to move house ? This in their supposed place of refuge, Australia. Anti Semitism is most definitely a problem whatever take you have on the war.