Elections in Germany today

^ But I do think that people need to feel that immigration ( which we do need) is under control.^

I think it's more fundamental than that. It's 'the economy, stupid'... while ever the EU, the UK and the US run their economies on the same neoliberal economic theory which benefits the better off and leaves a significant portion of the population struggling the 'strugglers' are going to be susceptible to politicians who blame immigration and 'the elite' for their poor economic status. It worked for Trump, it works for Reform and it works for the far right in Europe.

There is an agreed “firewall” in German politics which was signed up to by all the main political parties which is not to join forces with the fascists.

So I think it highly doubtful that Merz will cooperate with the AfD, however, I would expect Merz to get much tougher on immigration.

I also think his approach to Ukraine is tougher than Schloz and he has indicated that he will beef up military supplies to Ukraine and put peacekeeping forces into Ukraine if necessary.

His stance is similar to Starmer and I can see them working together over ukraine and Trump.

Merz is also likely to approach both France and the U.K. over extending their nuclear umbrella to include Germany, I can see this extension will probably cover other European countries in time.

Barleyfields

I think targets for DEI are wholly wrong. Everyone should be appointed to a job because of their ability to do it, not because they tick a diversity box.

As regards the current target for net zero, I think it’s completely insane and has no regard to the reality of people’s lives. Vast numbers live in rural areas and have no alternative to using oil and gas for heating and cooking. Nor does the impending ban on selling new petrol/diesel cars have any regard to the country’s car manufacturers. Milliband is a zealot, a total idiot.

Re fuel for housing in rural areas - I live in West Wales now. So I know there are loads of houses here that use oil or calor gas for heating and I can see that that looks easy enough for anyone to be able to operate.

The small town I live in has a very distinct cut-off point of just how far the gas goes for anyone intending to use gas central heating - and that meant I had a radius I could not look beyond when I was after buying a house here (as I use gas central heating myself).

There are a lot (and steadily increasing) number of houses here that I can see have solar panels on their roofs - and I investigated the possibility of doing this on my house. But I came up against the fact that, though my house is suitable for it (not all are) they do have an estimated lifespan and that "lifespan" might not be longer than my own estimated lifespan (ie possibility of more hassle and more expense further down the line).

Add that it seems to me one has to have a level of "technical capability" to be able to operate such a system and we don't all have "technical" brains. I certainly don't have a "technical brain" myself and I'm fine with it not being capable of anything more than low-level stuff in that respect (because it's better in other respects - like making sense of "the bigger picture"). I've even had to have my plumber change the controls on my gas central heating system back from digital to manual (despite the fact I'd told him firmly I don't have a technical brain and they'd have to be as simple as possible - but I still couldnt operate them and he had to change them so that I can do it myself).

So - yep....one can't push solar panels at many people - because (even if they could afford them) there are going to be a noticeable number of other people out there who also don't have "technical brains" and would find it impossible to use them.

Allira

So storm in a teacup?

Well yes, and no. If you look at the voting map, the ex East Germany has voted en bloc and fairly massively, for the AfD.
The old West Germany, has voted mostly Conservative, but the vote is very split- with the AfD almost insignificant.

It seems clear that Merx will refuse to form any coalition with the facists far right- but it does look very much as if the Ex Eastern Germany is very divided from the rest, and even, pro Russia.

Please however, this thread is about German elections, not DEI.

I wonder why this is - are there huge problems which are specific to East Germany?
It seemed to be a small proportion of the overall vote but if it's concentrated in a part of the country there must be a reason. I don't know enough about German politics to know why that would be.

Well said MaisieD. The world is experiencing a population shift caused partly by war partly by access to natural resources and the receiving countries are responding with a ‘They’re not coming here’ approach. I don’t think Metz can do much about that.

vegansrock

So 80.5% voters did not vote for the far right.

which means 20% did. Yikes.

Doodledog

Agreed, MayBee.

Racism is so much more socially acceptable now, and it’s worrying.

Is it?

But I have been surprised, almost shocked, at the Buy British and European thread.
MAGA has taken off as a concept[put you own country in], more and more it seems.

Whitewavemark2

There is an agreed “firewall” in German politics which was signed up to by all the main political parties which is not to join forces with the fascists.

So I think it highly doubtful that Merz will cooperate with the AfD, however, I would expect Merz to get much tougher on immigration.

I also think his approach to Ukraine is tougher than Schloz and he has indicated that he will beef up military supplies to Ukraine and put peacekeeping forces into Ukraine if necessary.

His stance is similar to Starmer and I can see them working together over ukraine and Trump.

Merz is also likely to approach both France and the U.K. over extending their nuclear umbrella to include Germany, I can see this extension will probably cover other European countries in time.

I see this as the way forward as well.. hopefully progressive, democratic politics will prevail for a few years.. though it feels like it is holding back the tide..

Whitewavemark2

There is an agreed “firewall” in German politics which was signed up to by all the main political parties which is not to join forces with the fascists.

So I think it highly doubtful that Merz will cooperate with the AfD, however, I would expect Merz to get much tougher on immigration.

I also think his approach to Ukraine is tougher than Schloz and he has indicated that he will beef up military supplies to Ukraine and put peacekeeping forces into Ukraine if necessary.

His stance is similar to Starmer and I can see them working together over ukraine and Trump.

Merz is also likely to approach both France and the U.K. over extending their nuclear umbrella to include Germany, I can see this extension will probably cover other European countries in time.

Good practical post as a starting point.

Scholz’s centre-left SDP party got a drubbing that’s for sure! Worst results in their history. Obviously the voters had had enough of them.

From the Telegraph:
“Germany has spoken: the party of Angela Merkel is back in power. This evening, the conservative CDU party, now led by Friedrich Merz, won just shy of 30 per cent of the vote, relegating the SPD chancellor Olaf Scholz’s party to third place. Now it falls to Merz to try and form a governing coalition.

But as the dust settles on a messy, fraught election campaign, and Merz looks forward to the prospect of four years as Germany’s new chancellor, one thing is certain: there will be no return to the ways of his predecessor but one. In fact, it falls to Merz to put the final nails in the coffin of Angela Merkel’s legacy.

Between the success of the CDU and far-right Alternative für Deutschland party (AfD) – which came second today with just under 20 per cent – nearly 50 per cent of Germans have voted to swing the country back towards the Right. But the Germany they want to see is, in more ways than one, the antithesis of the country Merkel governed over for 16 years.

Today has shown that the German electorate overwhelmingly wants the country’s borders tightened up and closed to illegal migration – a visceral response to Merkel’s decision a decade ago to open the country to almost a million asylum seekers fleeing unrest in the Middle East. Since then, that number has ballooned to three million. The AfD has fanned the flames of outrage on the issue, making the link between immigration and law and order a central pillar of their campaigning.”

Allira

I wonder why this is - are there huge problems which are specific to East Germany?
It seemed to be a small proportion of the overall vote but if it's concentrated in a part of the country there must be a reason. I don't know enough about German politics to know why that would be.

It's a very long story. After the Wall came down, many in East Germany were elated about the new Freedoms- especially those in Berlin. But those Freedoms did not materialise on the ground in real terms. I spent a few months in East Berlin a couple of years after the 'change'- living with East Germans. They still felt alien to the West, and like second-class citizens- and were treated as such. It took a long time for salaries to match those in the West, for the same professions. And unemployment remained much higher in the old East.

Many in the East, felt that 'freedom' meant very little to them. As one old lady from East Berlin told me. Freedom for what, what do I want with freedom? Freedom to lose my job, my community, my security, my health and social care! A little like regions in the old mining and steel making regions of the UK, or France - they felt the world was changing under their feet, and totally powerless. East Germany never caught up, and resentment built since then.

FGT2- not 'the German electorate'- the old East only.

I’m half German and my cousins are very worried about the AfD but illegal immigration is a huge issue there so Merz needs to address this as a priority.
Brexit continues to haunt me; now more than ever with Trump out of control there is a greater need than ever for a unified Europe.
I’m one of those Trump haters and I hope our lame PM doesn’t suck up to him on his forthcoming visit.

Going out now, will catch up later.

I think it is, fancythat. There has been a backlash against what the right call ‘political correctness’ and those who previously squashed down their innate racism are now voicing it openly. Some try to mask it by couching it in terms that suggest they differentiate between ’legal and illegal’ immigration but it comes down to the same thing.

I am in a few FB groups about local history, and some of the comments are sickening. Yes, local towns have changed over the decades and now there are different coloured faces who weren’t there in 1950, but so what? Until relatively recently there would only be a few unpleasant comments on a long thread - now they are widespread and offensive. It’s not even worth challenging any more, as it’s clear that some are posted by political agitators preying on people’s fears and discontent.

Some of it is obvious ignorance, eg the false narrative about ’white privilege’ meaning that only people of colour have ever experienced hardship. As soon as a photo of shoeless children appears there are comments about that, but it’s lack of education that drives them rather than racism. It’s the ones about how shops used to be for ‘us’, and how much better it was before ’they’ moved in that are more pernicious. At one time those comments were removed or roundly criticised, but these days they are left to stand and get support. The average age on a lot of these sites is older than average - they are more about reminiscing than real history - so it’s clear that people have held their views all along but haven’t felt confident to express them. Ironic, given the simultaneous narrative that free speech is a thing of the past in the UK.

Thoughtful post Doodledog and unfortunately I agree subversive racism and prejudice is becoming more open..

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Ah.
A touchy subject then, maybe best avoided?

No it’s ok.

I’m happy to explain my view, and it is only my view.

Sometimes DEI is completely abused and I agree targets are not the best way of dealing with minority groups.

But the very fact that we do need DEI policies is a reflection of how sometimes minority groups can be overlooked in jobs for no good reason.

I absolutely believe the person gaining the promotion or getting the job should be the person who is most suited/qualified/experienced for that role.

Bit of an emotional knee jerk reaction on my part.

I’ve calmed down today 😂😂😂

LaCrepescule

I’m half German and my cousins are very worried about the AfD but illegal immigration is a huge issue there so Merz needs to address this as a priority.
Brexit continues to haunt me; now more than ever with Trump out of control there is a greater need than ever for a unified Europe.
I’m one of those Trump haters and I hope our lame PM doesn’t suck up to him on his forthcoming visit.

👏👏

I think that Claremont has given a really accurate description of why Eastern Germany has responded as it did. Thank you. For those of us who followed the "re-integration" of the East is was clear from the start that there were inequalities that weren't adequately addressed - mind you, a huge huge issue.

Doodledog that's a really good post about how racism is coming out of the closet as it were. One of its most common features is the use of "them" and "us". When "them" is anyone who isn't white British whether they have in fact been UK citizens since say the Windrush generation (1948). Then there is the conflation of some of the attitudes attributed to (whether correct or not) recent arrivals with long standing UK residents.

pascal30

Thoughtful post Doodledog and unfortunately I agree subversive racism and prejudice is becoming more open..

I think it has always been there.
People still say I am not racist but..

I am not on Facebook, so wasnt aware what is happening on there.

I wonder what this is doing in today's list? It should have been in yesterday's.

There seems to be confusion in terminology. Naziism is ideologically left-wing - the clue is in the name!'