Kowtowing to Trump

ronib

Turbulent Times has an intelligent piece on Trump, Z and Starmer today.

Turbulent Times is written by Richard North, ex Referendum, UKIP, he shared an office in Strasbourg with Farage. Say no more.

And how can anyone trust a negotiator who is a consistent liar and is neither neutral nor honourable?

I have read it. It is basically saying that Ukraine should capitulate to Putin, and that the support of Starmer and Europe is feeding Zelensky's delusion that Ukraine can win.
I do not feel able to agree with that. Putin is, as I understand it, running out of military might..... unless Trump decides to support him ... hmmm.
He also needs to know that he cannot poach the land and minerals from his neighbours ad lib.
This grim war needs to stop, but achieving this by bolstering Putins ambitions is a scary course of action.
We also need to get into a position where the US is not the arbiter of international affairs and reduce the dependency of the West on them.
Negotiation is the best way forward ... we all know that and want that ... but how do you negotiate with someone who cannot be trusted?

Turbulent Times has an intelligent piece on Trump, Z and Starmer today.

Whitewavemark2

Starmer did what was necessary.

I have absolutely no doubt that the words stuck in his craw - but he did a good job.

Especially about the free speech 😳

Royal invite or not, we are at the mercy of someone who either can’t, or pretends he can’t remember what he said in previous conversations and would be undoubtedly backed up with his lack of memory by his willing supporters.

I remember when the two girls from Soham were missing and watching every news update with desperate hope they might be found safe and well but having that dread that this was already a huge tragedy. I feel a bit like that at the moment watching Trump's so called diplomacy and pronouncements.

The Cold War was quite terrifying. The Berlin Crisis and other incidents.

The Cuban Missile Crisis
But the USA had John F Kennedy in charge then

Allira

Luckygirl3

Esmay

Watching Starmer give Trump a personal invitation from King Charles was nauseating .
I felt extremely sorry for Zelensky .

It is of course nauseating to everyone - not least Starmer and the king. But they have to swallow their nausea and act in the best interests of the UK, which is what they are doing.

This is a critical time for world peace and their (and indeed our) personal feelings do not come into it. The do what they have to do.

We can only hope that Trump's bad diet will knock him off his perch pdq.

Of course, a State visit takes a very long time to plan.
Sometimes a very long time indeed.

I remember the State visit of the Ceauşescus when the Queen allegedly hid behind a bush to avoid them when they were out walking.

I remember the State visit of the Ceauşescus when the Queen allegedly hid behind a bush to avoid them when they were out walking.

I would have given a lot to see that (if true) - I'm imagining of course Hyacinth Bucket hiding from Onslow type images.

Which has led me to remember that era - over 30 years ago, when it seems looking back that 'life' was much simpler... felt more secure - but was it, in reality? It certainly feels now that the world is teetering on the edge of some global horror, and I don't remember feeling like that then.

I'm assuming most of us had never heard of Donald Trump.

Maggiemaybe

Yes. As Chris Mason, the BBC’s Political Editor, says:

Sources are tight-lipped about the precise nature of the two phone calls Sir Keir made on Friday night, very aware of the acute sensitivities of this delicate situation.

^But the UK's diplomatic efforts in recent weeks at least allowed those calls to be possible, allowing the UK to attempt to act as a bridge between both Kyiv and Washington, and Washington and Europe.^

Indeed. To be able to phone them both within hours of the incident - we cannot know what was said, just glad the lines were open.

Luckygirl3

Esmay

Watching Starmer give Trump a personal invitation from King Charles was nauseating .
I felt extremely sorry for Zelensky .

It is of course nauseating to everyone - not least Starmer and the king. But they have to swallow their nausea and act in the best interests of the UK, which is what they are doing.

This is a critical time for world peace and their (and indeed our) personal feelings do not come into it. The do what they have to do.

We can only hope that Trump's bad diet will knock him off his perch pdq.

Of course, a State visit takes a very long time to plan.
Sometimes a very long time indeed.

I remember the State visit of the Ceauşescus when the Queen allegedly hid behind a bush to avoid them when they were out walking.

Yes. As Chris Mason, the BBC’s Political Editor, says:

Sources are tight-lipped about the precise nature of the two phone calls Sir Keir made on Friday night, very aware of the acute sensitivities of this delicate situation.

But the UK's diplomatic efforts in recent weeks at least allowed those calls to be possible, allowing the UK to attempt to act as a bridge between both Kyiv and Washington, and Washington and Europe.

Just listening to various podcasts, and reading various comments etc it is striking how well Starmer did in Washington and how much admiration there is for his diplomatic skills.

Long May it continue!

This skill will be very useful in the future and I have no doubt Starmer will be one of the leaders chosen to speak for Europe when dealing with Trump.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd4y1mBxnP4

This is a roundup of the messages from other countries.

It also interesting to hear the comments he makes too.

Esmay

Watching Starmer give Trump a personal invitation from King Charles was nauseating .
I felt extremely sorry for Zelensky .

It is of course nauseating to everyone - not least Starmer and the king. But they have to swallow their nausea and act in the best interests of the UK, which is what they are doing.

This is a critical time for world peace and their (and indeed our) personal feelings do not come into it. The do what they have to do.

We can only hope that Trump's bad diet will knock him off his perch pdq.

If Trump and his regime were doctors, the price for saving your kidneys would be to give them your liver. Payable in advance, of course, they don't like risking anyone cheating them.

We have seen what appeasing Trump has done.
Zelensky dared to oppose him in what is literally a matter of life and death and we saw the worst display of calculated public temper, threats and bullying since Hitler threw himself on the floor and started biting the carpet.

Parsley3

BBC News - www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c625ex282zzt
Trump tells Zelensky 'make a deal or we're out' in angry White House meeting - follow live - BBC News
I put this on another thread but it is worth repeating. Trump and Vance showing who they are.

Unsurprising. Thanks for the link. Though I did watch it.

Gravitas, something Trump doesn’t have.

Well, I thought it was excellent.
There I was, doubting Starmer's ability to come up to the mark and he comes up trumps! (Another pun, sorry.) Along with Charles, too, of course.

eazybee

^What great PR from Starmer. ^

Words fail me.

Don't you think that everyone EXCEPT Trump and possibly some of his entourage is perfectly well aware of how brilliantly Starmer was acting? Yes, acting. His legal career in courtrooms and legal discussions taught him a lot about dealing with people face to face. He didn't act cowed by Trump's reputation for bluster, but he didn't try to try to tell Trump that he was doing it all wrong or threaten him with retribution. He treated Trump in the way that he had planned given Trump's personality, a way that would bring the best result for the UK. He behaved like a statesman.

Trump’s treatment of Zelensky was appalling, but I think it was planned to be just that. Trump & Co wanted to show who was in charge!
Starmer must be admired for showing the stiff British Upper Lip in adversity.
I think the Royal invitation should go ahead, they might show someone who has no manners how to behave.

Has anyone changed their opinion since seeing the news this evening reporting the meeting at the Whitehouse? IMO the behaviour of Trump and his deputy, both haranguing a President of an other country who's first language isn't English was absolutely appalling.
Poor King Charles having to entertain POTUS.

I think Vance is particularly scary.

Its nauseating how decent people have to keep on that insane tyrants good side to save him pressing the red button, mind you Vance is as bad, pity their wives they can’t even leave them.