Kowtowing to Trump

We have seen what appeasing Trump has done.
Zelensky dared to oppose him in what is literally a matter of life and death and we saw the worst display of calculated public temper, threats and bullying since Hitler threw himself on the floor and started biting the carpet.

If Trump and his regime were doctors, the price for saving your kidneys would be to give them your liver. Payable in advance, of course, they don't like risking anyone cheating them.

Esmay

Watching Starmer give Trump a personal invitation from King Charles was nauseating .
I felt extremely sorry for Zelensky .

It is of course nauseating to everyone - not least Starmer and the king. But they have to swallow their nausea and act in the best interests of the UK, which is what they are doing.

This is a critical time for world peace and their (and indeed our) personal feelings do not come into it. The do what they have to do.

We can only hope that Trump's bad diet will knock him off his perch pdq.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd4y1mBxnP4

This is a roundup of the messages from other countries.

It also interesting to hear the comments he makes too.

Just listening to various podcasts, and reading various comments etc it is striking how well Starmer did in Washington and how much admiration there is for his diplomatic skills.

Long May it continue!

This skill will be very useful in the future and I have no doubt Starmer will be one of the leaders chosen to speak for Europe when dealing with Trump.

Yes. As Chris Mason, the BBC’s Political Editor, says:

Sources are tight-lipped about the precise nature of the two phone calls Sir Keir made on Friday night, very aware of the acute sensitivities of this delicate situation.

But the UK's diplomatic efforts in recent weeks at least allowed those calls to be possible, allowing the UK to attempt to act as a bridge between both Kyiv and Washington, and Washington and Europe.

Luckygirl3

Esmay

Watching Starmer give Trump a personal invitation from King Charles was nauseating .
I felt extremely sorry for Zelensky .

It is of course nauseating to everyone - not least Starmer and the king. But they have to swallow their nausea and act in the best interests of the UK, which is what they are doing.

This is a critical time for world peace and their (and indeed our) personal feelings do not come into it. The do what they have to do.

We can only hope that Trump's bad diet will knock him off his perch pdq.

Of course, a State visit takes a very long time to plan.
Sometimes a very long time indeed.

I remember the State visit of the Ceauşescus when the Queen allegedly hid behind a bush to avoid them when they were out walking.

Maggiemaybe

Yes. As Chris Mason, the BBC’s Political Editor, says:

Sources are tight-lipped about the precise nature of the two phone calls Sir Keir made on Friday night, very aware of the acute sensitivities of this delicate situation.

^But the UK's diplomatic efforts in recent weeks at least allowed those calls to be possible, allowing the UK to attempt to act as a bridge between both Kyiv and Washington, and Washington and Europe.^

Indeed. To be able to phone them both within hours of the incident - we cannot know what was said, just glad the lines were open.

Allira

Luckygirl3

Esmay

Watching Starmer give Trump a personal invitation from King Charles was nauseating .
I felt extremely sorry for Zelensky .

It is of course nauseating to everyone - not least Starmer and the king. But they have to swallow their nausea and act in the best interests of the UK, which is what they are doing.

This is a critical time for world peace and their (and indeed our) personal feelings do not come into it. The do what they have to do.

We can only hope that Trump's bad diet will knock him off his perch pdq.

Of course, a State visit takes a very long time to plan.
Sometimes a very long time indeed.

I remember the State visit of the Ceauşescus when the Queen allegedly hid behind a bush to avoid them when they were out walking.

I remember the State visit of the Ceauşescus when the Queen allegedly hid behind a bush to avoid them when they were out walking.

I would have given a lot to see that (if true) - I'm imagining of course Hyacinth Bucket hiding from Onslow type images.

Which has led me to remember that era - over 30 years ago, when it seems looking back that 'life' was much simpler... felt more secure - but was it, in reality? It certainly feels now that the world is teetering on the edge of some global horror, and I don't remember feeling like that then.

I'm assuming most of us had never heard of Donald Trump.

The Cold War was quite terrifying. The Berlin Crisis and other incidents.

The Cuban Missile Crisis
But the USA had John F Kennedy in charge then

I remember when the two girls from Soham were missing and watching every news update with desperate hope they might be found safe and well but having that dread that this was already a huge tragedy. I feel a bit like that at the moment watching Trump's so called diplomacy and pronouncements.

Royal invite or not, we are at the mercy of someone who either can’t, or pretends he can’t remember what he said in previous conversations and would be undoubtedly backed up with his lack of memory by his willing supporters.

Whitewavemark2

Starmer did what was necessary.

I have absolutely no doubt that the words stuck in his craw - but he did a good job.

Especially about the free speech 😳

Turbulent Times has an intelligent piece on Trump, Z and Starmer today.

I have read it. It is basically saying that Ukraine should capitulate to Putin, and that the support of Starmer and Europe is feeding Zelensky's delusion that Ukraine can win.
I do not feel able to agree with that. Putin is, as I understand it, running out of military might..... unless Trump decides to support him ... hmmm.
He also needs to know that he cannot poach the land and minerals from his neighbours ad lib.
This grim war needs to stop, but achieving this by bolstering Putins ambitions is a scary course of action.
We also need to get into a position where the US is not the arbiter of international affairs and reduce the dependency of the West on them.
Negotiation is the best way forward ... we all know that and want that ... but how do you negotiate with someone who cannot be trusted?

And how can anyone trust a negotiator who is a consistent liar and is neither neutral nor honourable?

ronib

Turbulent Times has an intelligent piece on Trump, Z and Starmer today.

Turbulent Times is written by Richard North, ex Referendum, UKIP, he shared an office in Strasbourg with Farage. Say no more.

Quite.

There's an interesting piece in the Guardian saying Trump wanted Zelensky to sign the minerals deal and discuss security and further economic deals at a later date. Who on earth would trust Trump enough to do that? I certainly wouldn't, he'd probably have forgotten he'd said that by the following morning.
"Did I say Zelensky was a Dictator? Next question"!

Russia has a very impressive stash of nuclear weapons. We are now firmly aligned with Ukraine and we will become a legitimate target. I tend to agree with Trump that Z will start World War 3 over this so Trump has very neatly taken America out of the picture. Good for America and bad for the West. Trump might look like an idiot but he is protecting his country from Russian aggression. He wants Europe to fight its own wars.

Richard North does not support Nigel Farage btw.

ronib

Russia has a very impressive stash of nuclear weapons. We are now firmly aligned with Ukraine and we will become a legitimate target. I tend to agree with Trump that Z will start World War 3 over this so Trump has very neatly taken America out of the picture. Good for America and bad for the West. Trump might look like an idiot but he is protecting his country from Russian aggression. He wants Europe to fight its own wars.

I object very strongly to this post ronib. Zelensky is not starting a war. His country has been attacked. He is asking for support to defend it.

Well I object even more to becoming more and more involved in a war which has been fought for 3 years and which needs a negotiated settlement. There are not enough men left to kill.

I know exactly where you come from ronib. Richard North is a climate change denier, politically further right than Farage. Here is an expose on his son which includes him too.
www.searchlightmagazine.com/2024/09/fascists-offer-homeland-to-respectable-far-right-activists/

Nobody wants more war, but I I find your views about who is responsible, and what the palatable solutions are, quite shocking.

Well I am even more shocked by your approach Casdon. Not sure how that helps the argument.
A negotiated settlement is the only way ahead. So how are you going to end it?