Kowtowing to Trump

You can’t cloak the extremity of your views by trying to turn the tables ronib. Like most people, I want a negotiated settlement. I don’t want that settlement to force a very brave leader and country to capitulate to greedy unprincipled bullies.

My understanding is that Starmer is talking this morning about finding a settlement too. How can anyone not?
You don’t seem to understand that the numbers are against Z. He won’t have the manpower to fight on indefinitely. No Europe doesn’t have to give up its young men in this way. Casdon

ronib

Well I am even more shocked by your approach Casdon. Not sure how that helps the argument.
A negotiated settlement is the only way ahead. So how are you going to end it?

I’m impressed casdon I had no idea that you moved in such elevated circles wielding such power.

I don’t think that Putin will use his nuclear weapons. What use to him is a blasted and uninhabitable Europe? And, as people keep pointing out, France and the UK both have nuclear capability. The MAD. doctrine still applies.

I think Starmer's behaviour doesn't help anyone. It simply confirms Trump's opinion that he rules the world, not just America. We need to show him that we can manage perfectly well without him, or work together as partners.
I've stated before that Starmer is a suck-up. He has little self-respect.

PS. There was a lot of speculation at the start of Putin’s “special operation’ as to how viable his nuclear arsenal actually was as high levels of corruption and inefficiency made a significant amount of Russian armaments inoperable.

I’d trust Casdon to negotiate an end to the war more than I trust Trump

A negotiated peace is what is required ronib. Not a one-sided, bullying forced capitulation, which is what Trump is trying to engender.

We need representatives from Russia, Europe, NATO and Ukraine to sit round the table in private (not to make ‘great TV’) and negotiate, like grown-ups.

Trump should not lead the negotiations - he’s proved his credentials unworthy in that regard. If he spits his dummy out and doesn’t want to be involved - so be it🤷‍♀️

I thought Starmer did really well inviting Zelensky to Downing Street and then the king meeting him. It contrasted beautifully with the horrible event in the White House.

Ukraine has a standing army of 800000, and that is without general conscription.

Putin has had to resort to using troops from Northern Korea.

Ukraine is dependent on USA equipment because that is how the post war interdependence was built up - however that is set to change.

Putin’s economy it is thought will only sustain another years worth of aggression, so he will see a negotiated peace as essential within a short time frame.

Putin has Trump in his pocket. But it is well known that Trump has no interest in Europe, and so has no enthusiasm to ensure Europe’s safe future. He hates the EU and has hoped to drive a wedge between the U.K. and the EU. Well, we have news for you Mr Trump - the U.K. is a European country and our future will always be tied to this continent.

Europe must take the major role in any negotiated peace settlement, both for Ukraine’s and Europe future, because Putin will not stop at the peace settlement, he will continue to build up his army and start again as soon as he feels he stands a chance to continue his mission on expanding the Russian empire.

It is OUR future not Trumps at stake here.

Sadly the problem with both Trump and Ronib's approach to achieving peace in Ukraine is that it rewards Putin's aggression and does nothing to prevent him from attacking Ukraine again once he has re-armed and refreshed his troops. That is not a peace deal that would be acceptable to anyone.

With regard to the involvement of the UK, like it or like it not, to a very great extent our security rests with our alliances. Russia would not have invaded Ukraine if it had been part of NATO. Starmer may not be the most impressive or charismatic speaker but IMO he has the right skills for negotiating and most importantly he is able to put personal feelings and ego on one side to do what he needs to do. And thank God for that, what we don't need is more egos!

I agree completely Foxie- some politicians are grown ups!

Trump needs to be treated like the child he is. Let's have a parade at the Palace for him whilst the adults are dealing with the real mess the kids are making!

^Putin’s economy it is thought will only sustain another years worth of aggression, so he will see a negotiated peace as essential within a short time frame.
^

Would he not rather his people starve? "For the greater good of the nation" , or something like that?

He's been using his soldiers as cannon fodder and the Russian economy is suffering. He's on the back foot and needs a ceasefire as much as Ukraine which is why any peace has to give Ukraine security as you can guarantee he will use any ceasefire to re-arm for another attack without it.

foxie48 - I agree with your views on this matter.

One hope of course is that both Putin and Trump with succumb to anno domini.

foxie48

Sadly the problem with both Trump and Ronib's approach to achieving peace in Ukraine is that it rewards Putin's aggression and does nothing to prevent him from attacking Ukraine again once he has re-armed and refreshed his troops. That is not a peace deal that would be acceptable to anyone.

With regard to the involvement of the UK, like it or like it not, to a very great extent our security rests with our alliances. Russia would not have invaded Ukraine if it had been part of NATO. Starmer may not be the most impressive or charismatic speaker but IMO he has the right skills for negotiating and most importantly he is able to put personal feelings and ego on one side to do what he needs to do. And thank God for that, what we don't need is more egos!

Couldn't agree more Foxie.. Starmer has proved to be a statesman

WWM2 I don’t think Putin does have Trump in his pocket. Trump is a law to himself and who knows exactly what game it is that he is playing atm. A lot of it is cat and mouse and exercising his power and he most likely has ulterior motives that no one knows and may well change. Europe has to get its act together and NATO. However we have to remember that we did need the US in both world wars to finally win.

Foxie another in agreement with your post here👏👏👏