New Leaders of the Free World

Does the USA want to keep its many military bases in Europe?

Given what Trump has indicated, there would be no point in keeping troops in Europe?

I think also that intelligence will have to be re-thought.

I don't see any reason why NATO can't continue without the USA.. it just needs the will not to let Russian encroachment continue.. I think that Ukraine should be included..

Let Trump see that Europe cannot be bought or bullied.. we have the manpower and resources to be strong, so let's unify..

I honestly think that we’re reading too much into anything Trump said yesterday. I believe his short term goal is to force Zelensky to agree some kind of deal with Putin. I can’t believe that the American military will go along with Trump if he plans to pull American bases out of Europe. Trump might think he has executive power (which he has) but some changes in policy will need to be negotiated I imagine.

Not just the bases. The vast USA intelligence community using the bases. The relative closeness to the Middle East. Maybe Trump should think beyond getting mineral rights in Ukraine.

Not sure that I’d go as far as that Wyllow. I think that Trump has just lost interest in Europe for now.. Shld Russia and Chinastart making deals behind his back who knows what will happen.

WWmk2 is right that the West needs strong united leadership and needs it now.
I read somewhere that the US’s contribution to NATO is so dominant because of its size. Pro rata’d against some yardstick it is no greater than other countries. Is that rubbish?

I'm not saying that the USA would or wouldn't pull out from its bases nor its intelligence community or that Europe would raise it, just that its an issue.

How united is Europe now,though? One of the reasons it was a bad idea to have Brexit. Western Europe may well be but what about Eastern Europe ?

MaizieD

I'm always curious as to what exactly is the 'Free World*?

Free of what?

Good question

Whitewavemark2

maizie as far as I am aware, Russia has never attacked a NATO country, almost certainly as a result of the mutual destruction threat - look at Cuba.

That is why Trumps behaviour is so destabilising, and causing a vacuum which must somehow be filled if we are to get back to some form of balance.

Sorry, I'm not sure what Cuba has to do with this. It was never in a position to attack the US, unless it had USSR weapons based there and that hasn't applied since the mid 1980s.

What I am trying to say is that NATO's prime purpose was to 'defend' against the spread communism and when that 'danger' passed it lost its sense of purpose.

I can see that its purpose became much more relevant once Putin attacked Ukraine.

If Putin and Trump are so against NATO I can only imagine it must still serve a purpose. Also if they are so against the EU, this too must serve a purpose.
The UK burned its boats with the EU but must now unite with Europe or face becoming a pariah state allied to an enemy superpower, made up of the US and Russia combined with perhaps China joining forces.
Trump promised a new world order and this is it so we either hit the ground running or face the consequences.

You could actually argue that the very fact of its existence served it purpose of defending the destruction of liberal democracies.

My argument regarding Cuba was that the existence of mutual destruction, was clearly shown to work at the time of Cuba.

The USSR was simply not prepared to test its existence and as a result withdrew from placing missiles on Cuba.

Without the assurance that Trump will defend the rest of NATO with its nuclear capability, Russia, has clear passage into Eastern Europe and perhaps further,

That last post was to maizie

Both France and the UK have nuclear weapons

Surely the biggest threat to Europe at the moment comes from the Middle East? The conflict in Israel/Gaza is dividing people right across Europe. So far, there have been minor incidents but it could quickly escalate into something more organised. I think all the European leaders need to be prepared for conflict on our streets, not from outside.
One thing we should now be more aware of is how easy it is to bring everything to a halt by attacking technology. The recent problem with on-line banking and card payments shows what a big mistake it is to rely so much on the internet.

pascal30

Both France and the UK have nuclear weapons

And the rest of Europe will need to come under that umbrella.

I've just been sent a petition to sign, from Stay European, saying that I object to Trump's visit.. I was unable to do that as it has now hit a firewall.. Musk maybe?

mum2three

Surely the biggest threat to Europe at the moment comes from the Middle East? The conflict in Israel/Gaza is dividing people right across Europe. So far, there have been minor incidents but it could quickly escalate into something more organised. I think all the European leaders need to be prepared for conflict on our streets, not from outside.
One thing we should now be more aware of is how easy it is to bring everything to a halt by attacking technology. The recent problem with on-line banking and card payments shows what a big mistake it is to rely so much on the internet.

Ah! The good old populist fear mongering.

MaizieD

I'm always curious as to what exactly is the 'Free World*?

Free of what?

How about:

The term "Free World" historically refers to countries that are characterized by democratic governance, individual liberties, and market-oriented economies, especially in contrast to authoritarian regimes. It was widely used during the Cold War to describe nations aligned with the United States and its allies, who supported political freedom and capitalism, as opposed to the Soviet Union and its allies, which were seen as representing oppression and communism.

In contemporary usage, "Free World" may still evoke a similar sense of nations committed to democratic values, human rights, and freedoms, although the geopolitical context has evolved since the end of the Cold War. It can also be used more loosely to refer to countries that promote civil liberties, freedom of speech, and other democratic principles.

Whitewavemark2

pascal30

Both France and the UK have nuclear weapons

And the rest of Europe will need to come under that umbrella.

It's actually a bit scary when you look at the list of countries that have nuclear capability and of course the rumours of Israel and Iran.. most not allied to Europe..

mum2three

Surely the biggest threat to Europe at the moment comes from the Middle East? The conflict in Israel/Gaza is dividing people right across Europe. So far, there have been minor incidents but it could quickly escalate into something more organised. I think all the European leaders need to be prepared for conflict on our streets, not from outside.
One thing we should now be more aware of is how easy it is to bring everything to a halt by attacking technology. The recent problem with on-line banking and card payments shows what a big mistake it is to rely so much on the internet.

The biggest threat to the stability of the ME is what is occurring in Gaza. The biggest threat to Europe is Putin and his expansionist tendencies and Trump who is enabling him.
Let’s not muddy the waters with scaremongering please.

How any one can believe a word that comes out of the mouth of Starmer is beyond me

What makes you think that NATO has lost its purpose? There’s more goes on behind the scenes than you think. It always had a purpose and still does. I’m just hope the Chiefs of Staff at the Pentagon can convince Trump that they need to be a part of it.

Greyduster

What makes you think that NATO has lost its purpose? There’s more goes on behind the scenes than you think. It always had a purpose and still does. I’m just hope the Chiefs of Staff at the Pentagon can convince Trump that they need to be a part of it.

I agree, I suspect the intelligence community and the military want to maintain NATO.

But - it does mean (well to me, anyway) that Trump needs to adjust his very isolationist policy