Ukraine Plan to go forward?

Putin ultimately holds the cards though David49. Whatever else others do, including Trump, Putin is the only person who can actually stop the war.

Casdon

He’s wrong though, because the only person who can end the Ukraine war is Putin.

Putin is going to keep fighting and taking more if the US does walk away because he knows Europe is weak, we all respect Zelensky but he has to accept that US is essential for peace and it will be a high price.

He’s wrong though, because the only person who can end the Ukraine war is Putin.

Once again, sensible talk from David49

Syracute

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Sadly, (realistically?) what are the London talks going to resolve? The fact is, that Trump and 74% of the Republican Party are not prepared to keep pumping billions of dollars of military aid into Ukraine, when the war is clearly at a stalemate 3 years after it started.

The US supplies around 60% of the total military assistance, so what is Europe going to do to prop up Zelensky? Start a war with Russia?

Like it or not, Zelensky has to make peace with Russia and if that means giving up Territory, then sadly, so be it. As Trump said, he has no cards to play. Peter Mandelson clearly realises this as well, hence his comments.

Ridiculous Trump Talk .

No way should Russia be rewarded with Ukrainian land by starting this invasion .

Not ridiculous the very last thing the UK should wish for is for the US to walk away from Ukraine that is very dangerous. Even worse withdrawing from Europe or NATO that’s exactly what Russia and China would relish.

The only person that can end the Ukraine war is Trump, Europe is not capable of going it alone, it’s all dangerous dreams.

FriedGreenTomatoes2 Exactly so. What can be done otherwise? However it ends nobody will come out a winner.

Indeed -thank you Vermont.

Maremia

Did anyone see, on Facebook or other media, the warm welcome given to Vance in Vermont?
Not every American agrees with that ambush.

Well this American does ! Bravo !
This is what protest looks like .
I am glad he had to pack his bags and leave !
This is the free speech .
Also loved the guy calling him Putin’s puppet on the slopes .
He is a terrible skier he needs lessons badly .
Why he didn’t ski out west in the Republican towns where he would be more welcome is a mystery to me .

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Sadly, (realistically?) what are the London talks going to resolve? The fact is, that Trump and 74% of the Republican Party are not prepared to keep pumping billions of dollars of military aid into Ukraine, when the war is clearly at a stalemate 3 years after it started.

The US supplies around 60% of the total military assistance, so what is Europe going to do to prop up Zelensky? Start a war with Russia?

Like it or not, Zelensky has to make peace with Russia and if that means giving up Territory, then sadly, so be it. As Trump said, he has no cards to play. Peter Mandelson clearly realises this as well, hence his comments.

Ridiculous Trump Talk .

No way should Russia be rewarded with Ukrainian land by starting this invasion .

love0c

Dickens Not at all am I saying we should not have got involved. I am questioning why on earth give our land away and then pay the recipient as well??? Utter madness! Starmer has lost he plot. But he never had it in the first place.

Once again we haven’t given away ‘our land’.

Dickens Not at all am I saying we should not have got involved. I am questioning why on earth give our land away and then pay the recipient as well??? Utter madness! Starmer has lost he plot. But he never had it in the first place.

Did anyone see, on Facebook or other media, the warm welcome given to Vance in Vermont?
Not every American agrees with that ambush.

I’m sure nobody trusts the Russians any more than they trust us. I’m also sure that the US does not want to get into a war with the Russians. When it comes to frozen Russian assets I think Putin will have an opinion on that, he does want the sanctions removed but not at any price.

Now that the US has made it crystal clear they won’t support the war continuing, its going to be very difficult to deal with Putin, I fear this is going to be a long drawn out mess.

PoliticsNerd

They seem to think extortion, including the deal on minerals, is the right way to live. Back to the Al Capone reference.

Well stated ..

Babs03

I think the money will be coming from frozen Russian assets if I remember rightly.

That I believe was the original hope, but according to the Danish State Radio News yesterday, others may have reported this too, not all EU countries agree that this is legal - we can all guess at least one country that disapproves.

However, before using frozen assets, the EU does need to be certain that it is legal to do so. I am no lawyer but I doubt it is.

However, the agreements made in London yesterday are a step in the right direction, and if a cease-fire can be brokered it will certainly give Ukraine a much needed breathing space, but we need to remember that it will give Russia the same.

Two things remain to be seen, one whether Trump is the kind of bully who backs down when someone stands up to him, or not - he has formerly retracted some of his outrageous statements, such as calling Zelinsky a dictator, when he saw how unpopular that had made him, and whether Putin is worried by the EU and the UK standing firm and increasing their military strenght or whether he justs sees this as conformation of the fact his propoganda office has proclaimed, and which probably many Russians believe, that he is fightning not only Ukraine but all of NATO.

Wyllow3

The big question is, why is the US not sitting down with Europe to talk peace deals but only talks to Putin instead?

Yes, all of us just want peace, but if what Putin and the USA want is a puppet government in Kiev and access to mineral rights how can Europe or the Ukraine possibly agree?

Feel free to tell me I am wrong, but Europe isnt really in things, is it?

As I have posted on another thread, it is the US which has the power to protect or abandon Ukraine.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0rz178el8go

And I also wrote on that thread, the writing was on the wall for me, when the NATO secretary General himself, told or advised Zelensky to go back to Trump and try and sort things out.

For me, the whole thing has shown how weak Europe currently is.
And how strong the US is.

Although Trump is a bit of a loose cannon, I'm starting to feel he's less important as an individual but much more important for what he might stand for and who might be pulling his strings. Goodness this is all beginning to feel a bit like a Bond movie and not in a good entertaining way!

Yes, they are: for example, algorithms on X that promote Musk's own postings and no doubt similar ones. Probably allowing Tate and his ilk "free speech?"

Wyllow with regard to Vance's statement, I think it's about trying to discourage countries from bringing in legislation which might affect the tech companies adversely. Europe already has some legislation in place and there are more amendments added extra controls to cybersecurity which are not yet in force. They are also looking at AI controls as is the UK. I'm beginning to think this is why Musk is so supportive of far right organisations, in the main they are more interested in promoting their own propaganda than protecting citizens against the misuse of social media.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

I read somewhere that Russia occupies 20% of Ukraine. That’s not most by any metric. If Trump secures an agreed % access to the other 80% he’ll be happy with that.

I don't think you read my post. A great deal of these problematic minerals are in parts of Ukraine held by the Russians. The percentage is irrelevant in this instance.

love0c

I see it like this. We are willing to give away our land (Chagas Islands) and pay the recipient millions of pounds as well. While on the other hand we are going to carry on giving millions and millions of pounds to another country to carry on fighting another country that wants to take their land.

While on the other hand we are going to carry on giving millions and millions of pounds to another country to carry on fighting another country that wants to take their land.

Clearly you don't understand geopolitics.

This really is about a bit more than giving money to 'one country to fight another'.

At the outbreak of WW2 - 'one country wanted to invade another' - its border neighbour.

By your simplistic reckoning, we should have just allowed it and not got involved.

... and, if we had done that, then, to use a well-known rebuke... we'd all now be speaking German.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

I read somewhere that Russia occupies 20% of Ukraine. That’s not most by any metric. If Trump secures an agreed % access to the other 80% he’ll be happy with that.

It's not for Trump to "be happy with that"; Ukraine is a Sovereign country!

Would you be happy for the leader of another country to give away the South East and take possession of our tin and tungsten, copper, lead and zinc for doing so?

FriedGreenTomatoes2

I read somewhere that Russia occupies 20% of Ukraine. That’s not most by any metric. If Trump secures an agreed % access to the other 80% he’ll be happy with that.

Surely that partly depends for both he US but also the Ukrainians what the values of the % held are? (mineral, agricultural, and of course, access to eastern seaports)

The big question is, why is the US not sitting down with Europe to talk peace deals but only talks to Putin instead?

Yes, all of us just want peace, but if what Putin and the USA want is a puppet government in Kiev and access to mineral rights how can Europe or the Ukraine possibly agree?

Wyllow3

Zelensky has said he will sign the minerals deal, but it's not clear whether it's dependant on him "apologising". Meanwhile its still not clear to me as people have said how that contributes to a peace deal.

There are ways of wording "apologies".