This statistic is verging on the unbelievable....but it is not.

I don’t agree that ‘removing from society for a bit’ is likely to be helpful. People who do that tend to become isolated and reclusive and don’t return. I can give the example of a secretary who worked for my firm. She was anxious because of problems with neighbours. HR wanted to send her home. I was very much against that but of course HR won. She never returned and indeed she never worked again, despite only being in her early 30s.

Skydancer

Barleyfields

We have a generation of snowflakes who believe their fragile mental health will be adversely affected by work. What would have happened to us if they were the people called up for the world wars?

Agree. I have suffered from depression for years and have found that work helped me deal with it. I do accept that some people just cannot cope but many just need to pull themselves together.

"We do have to sift out the hangers-on from the genuinely incapacitated. A face-to-face meeting with an experienced social worker or similar would work best." "I know I’ll probably get jumped on for saying so but not by those who have real incapacities and need the funding"

One problem with the current system is this sifting. Even people who have serious, lifelong conditions that will never improve they have to go through this sifting. Time and time again, every couple of years, the same same but always different sifting. Possibly a rejection on a technicality. Then a reinstatement on appeal. The system is as unfair to those who really need it as those who are pulling a fast one.

Regard these newspaper headlines with a pinch of salt. I believe the numbers were discredited on R4 "More or Less".

There was a very good programme on Radio 4 yesterday afternoon about the impact of lockdown on children. A real insight into how a generation has and will be influenced by the isolation brought on by Covid.

I agree with Doodledog and Cossy that some people on benefits can be helped to work.
Two statistics that are missing is the number of low status jobs to match the number of people out of work who are fit for low status jobs.
We know there are not enough higher status jobs to match the numbers of university graduates.

this new carti drop fire

Barleyfields wrote:

"I don’t agree that ‘removing from society for a bit’ is likely to be helpful."

While removing from society for a bit may trigger long term reclusiveness, the reclusiveness may be due to pre-existing neuroticism as Churchview describes. For example perhaps the employee whom Barleyfields describes was clinically neurotic anyway.

She functioned well at work Caleo, and of course being at work removed her from the ongoing feud with her neighbours. Sending her home was the worst way to deal with her situation, she was signed off, just stayed at home and just got worse and worse.

Two statistics that are missing is the number of low status jobs to match the number of people out of work who are fit for low status jobs.
We know there are not enough higher status jobs to match the numbers of university graduates.
I don't think we should look at 'high' and 'low' status jobs. If someone is claiming benefits they should take any job they can do, regardless of whether they think it is beneath them. They can always leave when they get something they think is more suitable.

Graduates can't cream off all the good jobs just because they have degrees - those days are gone. Having a degree will give them the edge when it comes to applications, which is fair enough, but it is not ok to refuse to do work that others have to do just because they have qualifications.

Benefits are for people who can't work, not for people who don't fancy doing what is available, or who could work if the perfect job came to their doorstep.

"It's characterized by obsessive thinking and anxiety. You can't really cure a personality trait, but you can learn to manage it by becoming aware of what triggers your behavior, such as high-stress environments. American Psychological Association. Neurosis.1 Feb 2024"

True story: a forklift driver who was highly qualified for and could have got a higher status better paid job chose to drive a fork lift because driving his fork lift was was stress free.

Well said Doodledog. I may be wrong, but I believe there was a time when you had to accept any job offer or you would lose your benefits - but I suppose someone could deliberately perform badly at interview to ensure a job wasn’t offered.

glasshalffullagain

Scroungers faking depression. Foreign people getting our money.

For God's Sake, ( as they used to say) change the record.

👏👏👏

I have no doubt there are plenty of people like that Caleo, and good for him recognising that despite his qualifications that job was right for him.

Caleo

"It's characterized by obsessive thinking and anxiety. You can't really cure a personality trait, but you can learn to manage it by becoming aware of what triggers your behavior, such as high-stress environments. American Psychological Association. Neurosis.1 Feb 2024"

True story: a forklift driver who was highly qualified for and could have got a higher status better paid job chose to drive a fork lift because driving his fork lift was was stress free.

I know lots of people who are 'underemployed' in the sense that they could get jobs with more money and higher status if that's what mattered to them, but it isn't, so they don't. It's quite common. Many people wouldn't trade time with family for extra money (assuming they have enough to get by, of course) and if they did their partners would be unhappy with it. Not everyone wants to travel a lot on business, or to take a mobile on holiday, or be unable to commit to going to parents' evenings etc, and many people don't want to be married to someone who does those things either.

A life of long hours and stress is not for everyone, which is why many jobs which are stressful tend to pay more. They should be taken by those who are capable of taking the strain, though - not by people who take the salary and then go off with MH issues.

I am a foreign national and I have never claim work benefits.

My daughter who is a British citizen, will be leaving her well paid job soon and join the economically inactive because her punishing workload is making her very ill.

The usual scenario, people high up in the company made wrong decisions that costs the company a fortune. The company made a lot of people redundant and she has to do the work previously done by 3 people.

To make matters worse, nhs is broken. The number of times she had to do the test more than once because the hospital and surgery somehow managed to lose her test results or put the blood in the wrong test tubes.

She will not be claiming benefits. She will be living on her savings for a year or so to decompress for a few months and start her own business.

The reason the welfare system is unsustainable is because you have people born and bred in this country who refuse to work and live on benefits especially those below 25 years old.

The government then bring in foreign workers (nurses, care workers) because they are cheap labour and therefore must top up their salary with work in benefits.

Doodledog wrote:
"A life of long hours and stress is not for everyone, which is why many jobs which are stressful tend to pay more. They should be taken by those who are capable of taking the strain, though - not by people who take the salary and then go off with MH issues."

I agree, and I wonder if employers understand this when engaging staff. Personality is important often more so than education level.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SporeRB wrote:
"My daughter who is a British citizen, will be leaving her well paid job soon and join the economically inactive because her punishing workload is making her very ill."

Do please let us know if your daughter will apply for a low status low ,stress, job such as shelf stacking or pulling pints. And if she does so was that low status job easy to get.

SporeRB
My daughter who is a British citizen, will be leaving her well paid job soon and join the economically inactive because her punishing workload is making her very ill.

Sorry to hear about your daughter, but I hope all goes well for her.
Once she’s had time to take a breath, her idea of starting her own business could well be the way forward. Still stressful, but she’ll be in charge. Good luck to her.

One DD had similar problems in terms of being very well paid, but having a punishing workload, which made her so ill she had to give up.
She now does two jobs which bring in limited pay and are tiring, but don’t make her ill the way the other job did.

I think it’s shocking but not surprising. It’s a mess all round.

SIR KEIR STARMER will press ahead with plans for £6 billion of benefit cuts despite a growing Labour backlash, No 10 has insisted.

Today, the Prime Minister is expected to unveil measures that will lead to about a million people facing a reduction in or the total loss of their Personal Independence Payments (PIPs) – the benefits given to people who are disabled and unable to work to cover extra living costs.

Rachel Reeves, the Chancellor, has tried to counter criticism of the policy by noting that an “unsustainable” 1,000 new people sign up for the payments each day.

Barleyfields

I don’t agree that ‘removing from society for a bit’ is likely to be helpful. People who do that tend to become isolated and reclusive and don’t return. I can give the example of a secretary who worked for my firm. She was anxious because of problems with neighbours. HR wanted to send her home. I was very much against that but of course HR won. She never returned and indeed she never worked again, despite only being in her early 30s.

I completely agree, isolation is awful for most people with mental health conditions.

A few work adjustments and maybe less hours for a while.

Medication, therapies, good friends, all can help immensely.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

SIR KEIR STARMER will press ahead with plans for £6 billion of benefit cuts despite a growing Labour backlash, No 10 has insisted.

Today, the Prime Minister is expected to unveil measures that will lead to about a million people facing a reduction in or the total loss of their Personal Independence Payments (PIPs) – the benefits given to people who are disabled and unable to work to cover extra living costs.

Rachel Reeves, the Chancellor, has tried to counter criticism of the policy by noting that an “unsustainable” 1,000 new people sign up for the payments each day.

PIP is awarded to people who cannot work.

PIP is a benefit awarded to people with physical or mental health conditions, which affect them on a daily basis.

People receiving it may be employed or unemployed, it’s not means tested.

Ooops PIP is not only awarded to people who cannot work!!!

OhOhOh

^Please give evidence for this claim based on a reputable source. otherwise I will be inclined to assume that there is no eveidence and it is only hearsay,^

BBC acceptable M0nica? This is from 2019 and so probably higher 6 years later.

"In 2019, data showed that over one million foreign nationals were claiming working-age benefits in the UK, with 610,000 non-EU nationals and 380,000 EU nationals making claims, an increase of 9% from the previous year.
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
Data Source: The analysis is based on Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) data from 2019.
Total Claimants: The figures show that 990,000 foreign nationals were claiming working-age benefits.
Breakdown by Nationality:
610,000 were non-EU nationals.
380,000 were EU nationals.
Increase: This represented a 9% increase from the previous year.
Spending on Universal Credit: Over £7.5 billion was spent on Universal Credit for foreign nationals.".

Yes, but it doesn't tell us anything about how long they have been in this country, what work record they have. The migrant' could have come here aged two, worked for 30 years and then been made redundant

Many benefits can be claimed by people in work- housing benefit, if they are doing low paid jobs that the locals do not want to do - working in care homes for example.

I dislike these broad brush statements about complex subjects need to be treated with very great care unless supported by detailed analysis.

The BBC is usually very good about giving the granular detail, but in this case they seem to have ;et us down.

I do however like to have a link, so that I can read the original source myself.