PM recalls Parliament

Starter is too much of a son of Thatcher to approve nationisattion. There will be some sort of fudge before he gives money to some private enterprise who will make promises they won't keep.

ayse

We need Scunthorpe to manufacture virgin, high quality steel. I used to work for a company using only British made steel for oil pipelines. All the orders stated no Chinese or Indian steel.

I’ve been a bit of a fence sitter for environmental reasons but we also need coking coal, at least for now. I’d pay more tax to expand our industries.

The Labour Party needs to get a grip and renationalise our prime industries, not just steel. I loathe Brexit but let’s use our freedom now. We’ll need it in the future for defence and new Universal Theme park. Oh, and ensure jobs for the future.

I don't think old fashioned renationalisation will work now.

How will that resolve the twin problems of wanting to pay low wages and not being prepare to invest? Unless you are in favour of extreme socialism you have to resolve the issue of where the extremes of wealth go.

Ilovecheese

Starter is too much of a son of Thatcher to approve nationisattion. There will be some sort of fudge before he gives money to some private enterprise who will make promises they won't keep.

Can you explain the "son of Thatcher" remark?

I don't see Margaret Thatcher as someone who focused on equity, community, and public service or Keir Starmer as someone who focuses on individualism and market-driven solutions. Love to hear your explanation.

I read this interesting comment on another site this morning. I have no idea how much expertise/knowledge the writer has of steel production, but it sounds convincing and introduces some complexity to the debate.

Making steel is a complicated process with many stages. And steel is not a uniform product. What type of steel do you need, for what function?

Blast furnaces don’t produce steel. They produce pig iron. To do that, they need raw materials – iron ore, coke, limestone, etc. And ideally those bulk materials would all be available nearby. So where does Scunthorpe source its raw materials?

The coking ovens in Scunthorpe were closed down a few years ago. So that all needs to be imported.

And then the output from the blast furnace (impure cast iron) needs to be processed to produce whatever products are required – stainless steel, carbon steel, long or flat products, or whatever. So which are we making and why? Rails for trains? Wires? Plates for ships or cars?

The UK’s steel production is minuscule. About 4 million tonnes in 2024. About the same as Sweden or Finland. The Netherlands is about 6, Austria and Belgium and Poland all about 7, France and Spain about 11, Italy 20 and Germany nearly 40 MT. The world production is a both 1,800 million tonnes each year, with more than half in China, about 8% in India and around 4% in each of Japan, Russia and the US. The UK is less than a quarter of a percent. 2 parts in a thousand.

As far as I can see there is no primary production of iron or steel in many countries – Switzerland or Ireland or Portugal, for example – but some of them have arc furnaces that take in iron or steel of one sort (recycled, or from their neighbours) and produce different steels of higher value.

So what is the argument for primary production from ore in the UK? Do we expect we might be unable to import iron or steel from say France or Germany?

Perhaps we should just shut down these blast furnaces and make the jump to electric arc furnaces or direct reduction. And even if we do need to keep them as a strategic reserve, why can’t we close down the blast furnaces (in the same way that they are shut down for maintenance) ready to reopen?

The story that we have been sold over the closure of blast furnaces has been that only they can produce certain high quality steels. and that recycling via electric arc furnaces can't do this. Is this true?

PoliticsNerd

OldFrill

Casdon

Do you think coal powered blast furnaces should operate on a permanent basis then OldFrill?

Would have thought that was obvious

Perhaps you could explain the "obvious" to those of us who missed it.

Snipy much. I'm not shoring up others' failings thanks. Also can't see it's that important.

Ilovecheese

Starter is too much of a son of Thatcher to approve nationisattion. There will be some sort of fudge before he gives money to some private enterprise who will make promises they won't keep.

That’s patently not true as rail is being renationalised. The world has changed so much in the last couple of years that I would guess a whole new strategy for the future of steel in the UK is needed, but that can’t be achieved in the timeframe that Scunthorpe needs now, particularly if an extortionate price is being asked to purchase it. We will no doubt find out more later today.

Your 10:57:07 post was really helpful Maizie, thank you. I feel I could do with finding the equivalent of a Ted Talk . There maybe some long form articles over the weekend, I guess.

The current owners are saying that the steelworks is not a viable business. That doesn't fit with asking an extortionate price. Which private investor would pay an extortionate price for a non viable business?
If they ask for a high price our Government should laugh.

Goodness, I’ve just been reading the live feed on BBC. It sounds like a major standoff with the owners.

PoliticsNerd

ayse

We need Scunthorpe to manufacture virgin, high quality steel. I used to work for a company using only British made steel for oil pipelines. All the orders stated no Chinese or Indian steel.

I’ve been a bit of a fence sitter for environmental reasons but we also need coking coal, at least for now. I’d pay more tax to expand our industries.

The Labour Party needs to get a grip and renationalise our prime industries, not just steel. I loathe Brexit but let’s use our freedom now. We’ll need it in the future for defence and new Universal Theme park. Oh, and ensure jobs for the future.

I don't think old fashioned renationalisation will work now.

How will that resolve the twin problems of wanting to pay low wages and not being prepare to invest? Unless you are in favour of extreme socialism you have to resolve the issue of where the extremes of wealth go.

We certainly need to invest in ourselves.

Land and immovable property are the only items of wealth that cannot be exported.

Perhaps you can tell me where the extreme wealth goes? IMO, wealth is now a global item. Invest where it’s cheap and make huge profits. When that begins to decline, move on. That’s global capitalism.

Casdon

Goodness, I’ve just been reading the live feed on BBC. It sounds like a major standoff with the owners.

Yes, police turned up this morning as Chinese owners cars blocked from entry!

I dont think they can resolve the question of whether to nationalise or not overnight. Tice wants re-nationalisation (will Reform now apply this to water and rail?) but its a "where's the money coming from"

It’s an odd stance from Reform I think, nationalisation is about as far from survival of the fittest possible. Are they just trying to appeal to the populist vote, or are they moving to the left?

Their trying to appeal to the populist vote Casdon.

Isn’t appeasing the populist vote Reform’s usual approach?

I hope we can save the plant

Successive governments having been tanking our glorious steel industry since the 80’s. Now we’re down to our last blast furnace, they start to care! This has been coming for the last forty years.

They’re NOT their🙈

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Successive governments having been tanking our glorious steel industry since the 80’s. Now we’re down to our last blast furnace, they start to care! This has been coming for the last forty years.

Well FGT let’s celebrate that ‘now we’re down to our last blast furnace, they start to care’.

Yes, it’s been coming, dare we hope the government can do enough to keep the plant in business. My town was thriving 50 years ago, manufacturing, engineering , great mixed economy with plenty of work to be had. I know things change but we need to invest in this plant and create work in the north (east and west, I’m an equal opportunity hopeful)

Iam64

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Successive governments having been tanking our glorious steel industry since the 80’s. Now we’re down to our last blast furnace, they start to care! This has been coming for the last forty years.

Well FGT let’s celebrate that ‘now we’re down to our last blast furnace, they start to care’.

Yes, it’s been coming, dare we hope the government can do enough to keep the plant in business. My town was thriving 50 years ago, manufacturing, engineering , great mixed economy with plenty of work to be had. I know things change but we need to invest in this plant and create work in the north (east and west, I’m an equal opportunity hopeful)

I admit I don't know much about steel, but it looks as though the plant was about to stop production within days, so I'm glad that the government has stepped in.

Nevertheless, some kind of long-term strategy is needed (already being discussed on the globalisation thread). Cities such as Sheffield and Stoke have been decimated by loss of their major industries, but I don't think we can look to the past. New, sustainable industries need to be encouraged to set up to replace what has been lost - and the investment needs to come from somewhere. I'm no expert, so I don't know what the solutions are, but it's just not acceptable to let some communities rot, while some in other areas are just getting richer.

My understanding is that the Scunthorpe steelworks are at the end of their life. Somebody with expert knowledge needs to be put in charge and the government needs to earmark investment funds.

I live in what in its previous life was boastfully/pridefully called the King Cotton town in our bit of what was Lancashire. As well as mills, we had industry, railway, manufacturing, engineering etc. job opportunities were good and the town thrived. It’s still a good place to live, edge of moorland, 12 miles from Manchester, good schools.
Transport links are hopeless and expensive, though thanks to Andy Burnham, bee buses less expensive than the privatised ones. In rush hour, Trains are full before they reach us.
I’m pleased Scunthorpe may be saved, we need our own Steele work
The north east and north west need investment desperately

Casdon

It’s an odd stance from Reform I think, nationalisation is about as far from survival of the fittest possible. Are they just trying to appeal to the populist vote, or are they moving to the left?

They are quite clever at gauging the mood of the people and then promising them what they want. Our local Reform candidate was asking people what they wanted so he could use it in his campaign.

It’s the same in South Wales Iam64. Port Talbot is the last vestige of industrialisation in whole communities founded on coal and steel.

It’s the same in what were our industrial heritage towns. Once proud areas reduced to life of the dole with few prospects

MayBee70

Casdon

It’s an odd stance from Reform I think, nationalisation is about as far from survival of the fittest possible. Are they just trying to appeal to the populist vote, or are they moving to the left?

They are quite clever at gauging the mood of the people and then promising them what they want. Our local Reform candidate was asking people what they wanted so he could use it in his campaign.

It’s hypocritical though isn’t it, because nationalisation flies in the face of everything they actually believe in.

South Wales is dead, I was born in South Wales, ironworks, steelworks, factories, coal mines, all gone, moved back 2 years ago, such poverty

I have never been aware of Reform being the party of renationisation! Farage is now trying to distance himself from Trump! Shouldn’t’ve had so many selfies taken with him Nige !