Will the Supreme Court protect Women's Rights?

Oh I am glad if that is the case WW, I always feel the need to defend Blair, I think Brown is a good man but somehow I don't feel as much need to defend his actions.

Galaxy

And if we want to go back even further it was Blairs government which introduced the GRA which I think is a flawed piece of legislation.

Browns I think?

Galaxy

He takes his share of responsibility as does Penny Mordaunt who was wedded to Self ID whatever she may say now, the Lib Dems were particularly unpleasant towards those who were GC, and the Greens bless them have absolutely lost any sense of morality on this issue. The tories had years to turn this around, they failed. It is also a failure of society as a whole if we want to look at it from a wider perspective.
It was the feminists, some very brave lesbians and gay men, and of course social media who come out of this with credit.

I agree with this. I'm not saying that KS handled it well. I left the LP as a result of this and his sacking of left wingers in the party. It's just that IMO the way he is being blamed for this is a perfect illustration of why he behaved as he did. Being blamed for not being strong enough against the people who allowed something to happen (instead of the people who allowed it to happen getting the blame) is exactly the sort of thing he spends half his time having to deal with . It must be exhausting.

I said at the time that I didn't believe he really thought women could have penises - he was in the thrall of Stonewall, but I personally know several people who went along with it, as they knew what the consequences would be. Pronouns on emails, on Zoom/Teams screens was only the thin end of the wedge for a lot of people. One of the few upsides of getting older was, for me, the ability to refuse to play along, as doing so wasn't necessary to support my family. It was insidious and deeply embedded into many workplaces, as people like Kathleen Stock can attest. It's easy to sit on the sidelines and blame people who were in that position, and that is true of the LP as much as of local councils, universities, schools etc. How can you (anyone) fight against something from the dole queue? You have to be in the organisation, or give it up to the captured and lose all hope of change.

The country was in an almighty mess after 14 years of the tories. Starmer, love him or loathe him, wanted to be elected to sort that out as best he could. He was/is aware that the media are against him, and that many of the population will repeat the slogans fed them by the headlines, so had to be very careful about what he said in the run up to the election, and to stay on the right side of incredibly powerful groups such as Stonewall was at the time.

I do think he should have made a stand, and I said that at the time, too. But at the same time, do those who criticise him now honestly think that things would have been better under the Tories? Starmer is a pragmatist, and could have done nothing if he hadn't been elected.

I think it was what happened to the SNP that made Starmer slightly shift before the election, no one could have looked at that debacle and thought oh this looks a good position for a political party to take on.

And if we want to go back even further it was Blairs government which introduced the GRA which I think is a flawed piece of legislation.

Galaxy

He takes his share of responsibility as does Penny Mordaunt who was wedded to Self ID whatever she may say now, the Lib Dems were particularly unpleasant towards those who were GC, and the Greens bless them have absolutely lost any sense of morality on this issue. The tories had years to turn this around, they failed. It is also a failure of society as a whole if we want to look at it from a wider perspective.
It was the feminists, some very brave lesbians and gay men, and of course social media who come out of this with credit.

Yes: so many people, organisations, the press, the politicians involved.

Not only did the Conservatives have years to turn it around, but they actively contributed - Teresa May was a strong advocate from 2017 on for Self ID

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/18/theresa-may-plans-to-let-people-change-gender-without-medical-checks.

How short our memories are.

Galaxy

He takes his share of responsibility as does Penny Mordaunt who was wedded to Self ID whatever she may say now, the Lib Dems were particularly unpleasant towards those who were GC, and the Greens bless them have absolutely lost any sense of morality on this issue. The tories had years to turn this around, they failed. It is also a failure of society as a whole if we want to look at it from a wider perspective.
It was the feminists, some very brave lesbians and gay men, and of course social media who come out of this with credit.

I wouldn’t bless the Greens, more the opposite!

Yes and I forgot the heroes of the hour, the SNP, without their idiocy on this subject we wouldn't be where we are now, we owe them a debt of gratitude

eazybee

I don't believe the government were frightened of the press; they were frightened of Stonewall. The press will report what makes a good story, and they don't care which party it is. This situation with trans has been developing for years, and the man on the Clapham omnibus, the silent majority, most of the public, have watched in increasing disbelief at the mandates issuing mainly from Scotland but accepted by politicians..

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Interestingly, we are having an election shortly. Usually we are inundated by flyers, and candidates or supporters asking who we are voting for, or if we have any questions.
Equally we have posters in windows and on poles, sayin Vote . . .

So far, no visitors, one flyer and I’ve only seen 2 posters, both for . . .

Greens bless them have absolutely lost any sense of morality on this issue

Scottish Greens in particular Galaxy. Their contribution to women's rights was Mridhul Wadwha. That went well.

I agree with youLizzieDrip; but I think you're being a bit harsh on him to be fair. He's certainly been a limp biscuit where women's rights are concerned, totally sold out to Stonewall, sacked anyone who had the bravery to even raise the issue that only women give birth, menstruate or are menopausal and then started gibbering nonsense like a rabbit caught in headlights when questioned about his beliefs and actions. He was clearly way out of his depth and most likely took advice from his advisors who took advice from Stonewall It's a real shame isn't it? So many missed opportunities, so many mistakes, so much damage done to 50% of the electorate. But we won't forget or forgive will we?

He takes his share of responsibility as does Penny Mordaunt who was wedded to Self ID whatever she may say now, the Lib Dems were particularly unpleasant towards those who were GC, and the Greens bless them have absolutely lost any sense of morality on this issue. The tories had years to turn this around, they failed. It is also a failure of society as a whole if we want to look at it from a wider perspective.
It was the feminists, some very brave lesbians and gay men, and of course social media who come out of this with credit.

AGAA4

LizzieDrip
As usual … it’s all the fault of Keir Starmer!

Nobody has said it's all his fault but he is one of a number who have perpetuated a lie.

LizzieDrip

As usual … it’s all the fault of Keir Starmer!

Nobody has said it's all his fault but he is one of a number who have perpetuated a lie.

As usual … it’s all the fault of Keir Starmer!

Hmmmm.... not quite Doodledog; at the time that the Starmer was busy suspending MPs and members for wrong think, declaring that anyone could have a cervix and a small number of penis owners were women; Johnson as terrible as he undoubtedly was was issuing statements denouncing men in women's sports, that "biology was important and confirmed that only a man has a penis. So, whilst I'm definitely no supporter of the incompetent tories, they've undoubtedly been a better female ally than Starmer has ever been or will in the future despite his new awakening

As the shadow party for so many years, Labour had the perfect opportunity to make their support for women an integral part of their manifesto. Instead, Starmer doubled down on his lunacy and ...... here we are....

I agree Doodledog that this ridiculous situation has been going on and been allowed to go on for years, but I disagree that blaming him is desperate, especially when he's on record with the ridiculous 'fence sitting' comments he has made.

Maybe there'd be less criticism if he'd publicly commented on the ruling last week. At the very least IMO he should, on behalf of the labour party, apologise to Rose Duffield for her ridiculous suspension from the labour party for simply stating a biological fact.

I agree with AGAA that He has betrayed the women of this country and particularly those who stood up for women. No, he's not the only one but as our PM it's his responsibility to take the lead.

I don’t think it has been handled well by anyone in power, but blaming KS seems desperate. It’s not as if the problem has sprung up in the months he’s been in power. It’s quite the reverse - over 14 years of the Tories, Stonewall and the TRAs have held sway, and it is only now that it has stopped.

Not because of Keir, admittedly, but because of people like JKR and the women (and occasional men) who fought the good fight, despite the damage to their reputation and careers, and despite governments of all stripes being against them.

Keir Starmer has let himself down over this issue by pandering to a small minority of very vocal TRAs.
He has betrayed the women of this country and particularly those who stood up for women.

JK Rowling calls for Sir Keir Starmer to apologise after Supreme Court ruling on women

Rowling who has been outspoken against transgender women using single-sex spaces - was among several gender critical campaigners who celebrated the ruling, and has now called on the prime minister and government to apologise for previous statements supporting trans women.
"Women have fought (and are still fighting) the single biggest land grab on their rights in my lifetime," she said on social media.
"Some have sacrificed their livelihoods and safety to combat a pernicious ideology that has infiltrated elite institutions, including government."

C'mon Keir, be a man about it and admit you got it wrong.

Rosie Duffield has some excellent tweets and retreats on X regarding Starmers sudden awakening. J K Rowling, Suzanne Moore, Sharon Davies, Maya Forstater have a blistering and sceptical take on it too. Ms Duffield shared this very interesting nugget: In 2021, Gilbert House was suspended from The Labour Party for saying that "only women experience the menopause". There's a copy of the official draft charge which states:

In October 2021, Mr Gilbert House shared a post on Facebook regarding World Perimenopause Day. Mr House stated "important message about the menopause from NHS without a mention of women (shocked face emoji) What's going on.
In October 2021, in the same facebook post he stated "women has become a dirty word. It's not being inclusive if you exclude women.
In October 2021, in the same facebook post he stated "Only women experience the menopause

Mr House has engaged in conduct prejudicial and/or grossly detrimental to the Party, in breach of Chapter 2, Clause 1.8 of the Labour Party Rulebook

I wonder what could possibly have happened to cause such a complete voltè face in the Labour Party between 2021 and 2025?

^

Well, I find myself supporting the last two posts from Doodle and eazybee . I’m less angry with Starmer than eazybee is, as would be expected given where we sit politically. I feel the press were desperate to trip Starmer up and as a KC he was boringly aware of the need for this Supreme Court ruling. No going back now Keir you’ve said it and can stick with it. I expect he’s getting some pressure from some of his MPs

I don't believe the government were frightened of the press; they were frightened of Stonewall. The press will report what makes a good story, and they don't care which party it is. This situation with trans has been developing for years, and the man on the Clapham omnibus, the silent majority, most of the public, have watched in increasing disbelief at the mandates issuing mainly from Scotland but accepted by politicians..

Galaxy

We can't have leaders who will lie or say anything because they are frightened of the press. It destroys trust as this has done.

We maybe shouldn’t but we can, and we have had. This situation has been building for years and has improved massively recently. I am very glad of that and don’t want to sour the feeling of gladness by harkening back to what should have happened.