The two party system is finished

The two main parties are so similar now, people are looking for something different in both directions

The two party system is finished

I so hope so.
Been hoping for a couple of decades at least.

Not so sure though.
People say in the past, no point voting for anyone else, as a lost vote.
I suspect a lot of people are still in that same mindset.

But it still needs to be reflected in the elections. PR would be a reasonable solution. The New Zealand system seems to work quite well.

No system is perfect either but FPTP seems the least democratic.

ayse

But it still needs to be reflected in the elections. PR would be a reasonable solution. The New Zealand system seems to work quite well.

No system is perfect either but FPTP seems the least democratic.

First past the post has held back alternatives to the Tories and Labour for decades and meant we have the ridiculous situation last year where a government was elected by a landslide with only a third of the vote. PR would mean political parties would have to work together and people would feel their vote was more valued. Only the UK in Europe persists with first past the post.

Trouble is, the two main parties would have to agree to change the system, and that is not in either of their interests

Cumbrianmale56

ayse

But it still needs to be reflected in the elections. PR would be a reasonable solution. The New Zealand system seems to work quite well.

No system is perfect either but FPTP seems the least democratic.

First past the post has held back alternatives to the Tories and Labour for decades and meant we have the ridiculous situation last year where a government was elected by a landslide with only a third of the vote. PR would mean political parties would have to work together and people would feel their vote was more valued. Only the UK in Europe persists with first past the post.

Yes, I agree. I seem to remember the Labour Party conference agreed that we should go down the PR route but the leadership doesn’t do anything. Last time we voted about PR it wasn’t PR imo. The electorate needs to demand!

It’s not the consensus though.
yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/51504-do-britons-support-shifting-to-proportional-representation
I’ve got very mixed feelings about PR, but having experienced it in Wales, on balance I would vote against it if there was a ballot.

Tactical voting has resulted in the shambolic government we have at present, and a parliament full of inexperienced
mediocrities; proportional representation would mean no clear leadership, coalition government and an inordinate length of time before a government is formed. The only time coalition governments work is when a country is facing a common enemy.

Yes, this seems to be the case Cumbrianmale56 and I think it is a natural progression.
The same is happening here in Australia, democracy is evolving and alternatives to the two party system is a good start.
Personally I have always been a swing voter, in fact I find those people rusted on to one particular party are often missing the point. Elections are an opportunity for the people to voice what is important at a particular time.

The stranglehold Unions had on the Left and the influence Big Business had on the Right is diminished as people are better educated and able to consider and articulate their opinions and ideas.

We have two systems of voting in Australia, with preferential voting used in the House of Representatives and proportional representation is the method used in the Senate. I think this helps balance the system.

We also have compulsory voting.

Before you get enthusiastic about PR, with that system at the 2024 election we would have a hung parliament with Tories plus Reform having real power.

Personally I think the present government is more preferable to that chaotic prospect

Yes only let people have their say if it is the answer you want.

Galaxy

Yes only let people have their say if it is the answer you want.

Cameron got that wrong

That's not democracy is it. Avoiding implementing a voting system because people won't vote the way 'you' want them to. Five minutes ago people wanted PR - ( mainly because they saw the lib dems as the third party) it looks a little hypocritical to me.

Galaxy

Yes only let people have their say if it is the answer you want.

People don’t have their say with either system. Regional representation is how PR is achieved, which loses the local voice, so important in politics. If there is a good system which enables everybody to have their voice I haven’t heard of it yet.

We have a regional system in the UK and the regions are still not content

Oh I am not in favour of PR casdon, I have always been indifferent to be honest, but I think not wanting it because reform might get in is interesting.

We had a referendum on this issue back in 2015. The turnout was very low. People voting against STV. Like Brexit, we have to accept the will of the people. Cameron did not have a track record on referendums did he?
If a no more referendums party appeared I might vote for them...

David49

We have a regional system in the UK and the regions are still not content

Not sure we are talking about the same thing David49. What I meant was that to have PR means that at national level, politicians no longer represent a geographical patch in the same way as our current MPs do, to ensure all voters are represented. Having experienced effectively half that system in Wales, where half the seats are ‘local’ FPTP, and half ‘regional’ PR, I don’t think PR works as well as the local system personally, because ‘regional’ MS are too remote from what is happening - they operate in an almost purely political arena, so don’t achieve anything.

Ilovecheese

The two main parties are so similar now, people are looking for something different in both directions

Conservatives definitely wanted "something different", although I would agree they find it difficult to articulated what that is.

The far and hard-right, in whom I assume previous posters place their confidence were, in the guise of far-right Andrew Lawrence and far-right Alison Pearson, predicting in January that the UK economy would be collapsing in April of this year. I guess some of the right-wing still believe it is if that's the propaganda they're reading!

And yet, and yet, here we are in April. Inflation is lower than expected, growth is higher and we may get a bigger interest cut than expected next month.

Yes, Trump is likely to attack our economy but are those complaining are often fans of Trumps, believing he is right to attack us. Meanwhile consumer confidence in what is actually happening is improving.

Looking at previous comments it really is time to stop thinking the government of this country should be run on the premise of individual gransnetters opinions, gathered from the depths of mass-media and just let the government get on with their job with realistic opposition when some group or other can actually pull such a thing together.

People are vaguely trying to have a conversation about methods of voting, and someone pops on to tell us that the mysterious 'previous posters' support the far right. Is it me or are things a bit weird at the moment.

keepingquiet

We had a referendum on this issue back in 2015. The turnout was very low. People voting against STV. Like Brexit, we have to accept the will of the people. Cameron did not have a track record on referendums did he?
If a no more referendums party appeared I might vote for them...

You surely don't believe the dead can dictate to the living keepingquiet? That's what you seem to be suggesting.

Despite the hostility against the Labour government, largely generate by the right wing media, they are doing quite well in the circumstances, Starmers steady hand and calm diplomacy gets my vote, even if I disagree with some of the policies.

keepingquiet

We had a referendum on this issue back in 2015. The turnout was very low. People voting against STV. Like Brexit, we have to accept the will of the people. Cameron did not have a track record on referendums did he?
If a no more referendums party appeared I might vote for them...

Just for clarity the referendum was in 2011.
Turnout was around 42%
More than double voted against than voted for.
It wasn't Proportional Representation that was being voted on, it was Preferential Representation.

Any system which results in proportional representation runs the risk of awarding disproportionate power to minorities, Israel has often been singled out to illustrate this. In Scotland where the Assembly is elected by the Additional Member Vote disproportionate power and influence was gained by the Green Party who propped up the SNP for many years (until Yousef lost his rag). The damage done by minorities with disproportionate power is clear to see.