J K Rowling has nailed it - re Starmer and the trans issue

Why would people need to be told, the medical professionals will know their sex.

I do have grave reservations for an across the board mandated policy for a transwomen or transman, sick in a hospital bed, to have to face every one else on that ward to be told they are trans (in order to explain why an apparent person of the opposite sex has appeared)

Whilst I can understand your concern Wyllow is that not what you're asking women to do? Would it be any more difficult for a trans woman patient to have to explain his presence/appearance to male patients than it would female? And vice versa for a trans man?

Only about 0.05 percent of the population in the uk. are trans.
About 285 trans are in prison at present. What a lot of upset and damage has been done to young people by the stupidity of the last few years, where you cant open your mouth for fear of upsetting someone. Regarding hospitals, simple, if they have a womb ladies ward, a penis the mens.

I do have grave reservations for an across the board mandated policy for a transwomen or transman, sick in a hospital bed, to have to face every one else on that ward to be told they are trans (in order to explain why an apparent person of the opposite sex has appeared)
Trans people are far from being accepted by all and mocked or attacked and when sick as well?

Oof! That sounds like an unpleasant situation all round, Molly.

I think that Rosie's suggestion that everyone knowing that the transman is a woman and the transwoman is a man is the best way forward. That way, people will learn to accept transpeople as transpeople, and a lot of the pain will lessen. The more of that sort of thing the better, so long as it is handled sensitively, particularly at first.

Eventually, it really won't matter how people 'present', but nobody can claim to be the sex that they aren't, and the language will reflect that. I hope.

As an aside about being uncomfortable,
When DH was in hospital recently, they moved a late teenage boy out of the men’s ward into a separate room because of concerns that both he and the men would be uncomfortable listening to the treatment most of the men on that ward were receiving.

I'd agree Rosie51; it's simply down to

a) women being uncomfortable with a biological male on their ward
or
b) a biological male being uncomfortable on a men's ward

I've never heard of any trans women being assaulted on a men's hospital ward, so their seems no danger there. But there has been an incident of a woman being raped on a hospital ward by a trans-woman (biological male).

I should add I'd not agree with it being standard practice to put transmen on the men's ward but in extremis I'd be OK with it.

In that situation I suspect the transman should have to be on the women's ward. No doubt it would be uncomfortable and potentially distressing for all, but the patients would at least be reassured that they were all biological females. In practice if the transman passed well, and lots who are on testosterone do, I'd accept them being placed on the men's ward. Before anyone screams hypocrite at me, yes I know I am being hypocritical but my main concern is with the safety and dignity of women. Transmen aren't usually a danger to men, normally being of smaller stature and definitely less physical strength. Transition does not diminish a transwoman's stature nor strength so that's why I'm against transwomen on women's wards.

I think we do need the guidance which the Equalities commission will give and the "in practice" advice.
"
The organisation "Refuge" for example serves men and women but the actual refuses are women only "except in exceptional circumstances".

Given the realities of hospital provision, and if no single room available, will the law compel a transman to be situated on a womens ward causing great concern and discomfort? There has to be leeway for common sense professional decisions.

We’ll just have to watch what happens.

Will obeying the law or accepting a lie be considered more important?

Nurses wouldn't tell Julie about Jane! might have to if they came in at the same time! But seriously, if it's known, and it would be, that some transwomen get to be admitted to the women's ward and Julie gets told they must have the single room, then Julie is left in no doubt that they don't pass well enough, they've been judged on looks alone.
There will be situations where transpeople will access single sex spaces wrongly, but a medical setting should never be one, and especially not with the connivance of the authorities who know the truth.

The last court case against an organisation which tried to curtail gender critical speech cost the organisation half a million. Organisations need to follow the law. Hospitals are simple as they need to know that persons sex or they can't treat them.

Well definitely the single room is the hope.

In the real world people are assessed all the time from how they present. It becomes a problem when conflicts arise. I dont imagine the gym is gong to start strip searching women if they suspect they are trans for example.

What I'm saying is that circumstances create grey areas

Nurses wouldn't tell Julie about Jane!

And if that male commits a crime on the ward ( because no evidence exists that how men pass impacts the way men offend) and the women take a court case against the hospital for breaking the law, what will happen then.

Who is going to make the decision whether someone passes well enough? Wouldn't it be a kick to the stomach for anyone to have to say "Sorry Julie, you don't pass, you're obviously a male so we can't put you on the women's ward but Jane here is so pretty they'll never know so 'she' can"? As I said in reality these patients will be allocated a single side room, no outing at all. I am very uncomfortable with any law being broken on the basis of looks.

Oh, thanks for that cross posted notification, Rosie. Yes ideally a private room but the reality thats usual reserved for people who are extremely sick or dying or have a dangerous infection.

As you say, it isnt huge numbers thats why I suggest what I do, now nurses can say "no".

And on the woman's ward the women are supposed to be comfortable with the person who clearly looks male, enforced on them? And is it proper to force the situation breaking privacy by revealing to all and sundry that X is in fact really a women" Is that what sick people want to undergo?

I was typing while you posted Wyllow3. Given the tiny percentage of transpeople, as we're constantly told, it shouldn't realistically be an everyday problem on every ward.

If the law is properly observed in hospitals patients on a ward will know for example that the person in the bed opposite, although sporting a beard, is in fact a biological female. On the men's ward that pretty 'slip of a thing' in the next bed is a biological male. I'm not suggesting that either scenario will necessarily be comfortable for all concerned but there would be no doubt that you were still on a single sex ward. In practice I expect the transpeople will get the luxury of a single side room which actually is the preference for lots of people.

correct" ie putting a transman who for all intents and purposes is seen as a man by the women on a womens ward creating great discomfort for the women" - what about them?

I do understand your in principle approach Galaxy but real life decisions need to be made to avoid cruelty, as well not to mention conflicts.
There may well be men who want privacy from whom they perceive to be a woman from all sorts of embarrassing

situations as well as vice versa

ie putting a transman who roll intents an purposes is seen as a man by the women on a womens ward

They are, according to the law. This problem has been created by society telling men they can become women. We can't organise single sex spaces on 'passing', it is cruel.

Until there is more clear guidance, I expect nurses and doctors to make "best option" decisions for patients based on individual circumstances - in so far as they have the beds to do this.

What they have gained by the ruling is when its clear cut your bearded/aggressive male patient they can now say a clear "no"to womens wards but in practice its not often clear cut - a man who has had full transition and lived as a women for a long time isn't the same.

n fact a 79 year old transsexual with cancer who was frightened of going into hospital for forthcoming operation

What is he frightened of?
It's very likely that he'll be obviously male, especially in pyjamas or a gown, so at no risk in a male ward.

It's also quite likely that the hospital will continue to place people in wrong sex wards if that's what they want.
The huge brainwashing exercise can't be so easily reversed.