Uk Elections today

I don’t know Wyllow3, I’ve been out today, I only just noticed how close the numbers were, so you may well be right.

But Carlotta County Councils can't do anything about immigration - incidentally, do you mean immigration in general or those crossing the Channel by small boat?

I'm well aware that County Councils can't do anything about immigration growstuff which is why I specifically said that this was a warning shot to the two main parties, particularly Labour. I completely agree with the rest of your observations but I know that many poor northern towns have felt overlooked and ignored by both Labour and the Tories for a very long time. They've seen little to no investment in their infrastructure; unemployment is generationally high, quality of health is poor, schools are poor and over subscribed and social care is on the bones of it's arse. At the same time, they're seeing more and more money being spent on immigration and they're angry and resentful because they feel they're carrying the heavier burden for that. Farage is certainly a mini Trump and a Reform government will be as catastrophic for the UK as Trump has been for the US. But the people who voted for Reform are the same demographic who voted for Trump; the angry, the overlooked and the disenfranchised who just want to be heard. Ignore them at your peril.

I think it's a case of *by their deeds shall we know them, not their words. And if many of them are decent people, which I'm sure with those numbers, there are, they will have to address peoples needs in practice, not in theory, before more elections come along of greater import.

Exactly this. Labour's fine words in July 2024 have buttered no parsnips thus far.

Carlotta I've never ignored them. I was born and brought up in a deprived northern town and I've watched it decline even further. You don't have to lecture me about the conditions in some towns. I drive through them sometimes - with their boarded up shops and leisure facilities and neglected housing - and thought that I'm very grateful I don't live there. I also realise that many Reform voters are the same demographic who voted for Trump.

However, I seriously wonder what Reform voters think they'll achieve. To be honest, none of this affects me that much. I don't have SEND children or grandchildren, I don't need social care (yet), I can afford to pay an extra couple of pounds for bus fares and if bus routes are cut, I have a car. I've got used to potholes. I might complain if the fire service were cut and couldn't reach me in a car accident or fire.

County councils can't do anything about the NHS, which is usually high on people's agendas, nor can they do anything about benefits (apart from a couple of tweaks to Housing Benefit and the allocation of some discretionary grants).

I just wonder what Reform voters are going to achieve with their "warning shots".

Why would that matter, no vote they have made has made any difference for years.

These results don’t surprise me at all. The change had already been reflected in the General Election where former Conservative voters (especially older voters) switched to Reform.

This is how older voters voted in the 2019 GE:

Tory 67%
Labour 14%
LibDem 11%

And in the 2024 GE:

Tory 46%
Reform 15%
Labour 20%
LibDem 11%

Few people could dislike the Conservatives and Reform as much as I do. If one takes power from another, I really don’t care.

I’m interested to see what Reform does now. Farage himself admitted to Sky’s Beth Rigby that his party's biggest challenge would be delivery. That’s quite an admission.

What does reform stand for other than anti-immigration or Trump-echoing on DEI?

There are many newly-elected councillors who are aout to get a very sharp shock when they realise what their new job actually entails. I suspect history will repeat itself.

Pollster Peter Kellner in the Guardian:

Reform should make the most of its success – it won’t last

Nigel Farage should enjoy Reform’s triumphs while he can. This may be as good as it gets. In May 2015, his former party, Ukip, gained control of Thanet district council. Before last night, it was the only time any of his parties won the power to run anything. What pointers does it offer to the months ahead?

Ukip’s 10-seat majority in Thanet should have given it four years of power to show what its new brand of politics could achieve. Alas, it turned out, that was very little. Six months later, five of its councillors defected, following internal rows about a local airport. A byelection subsequently restored its majority, but only until another councillor defected, saying Ukip had failed to make “significant change”. The following year, 12 Ukip councillors peeled off to form an independent group. Ukip’s days in charge of Thanet were over. In 2019, it fielded just three candidates. They all lost.

Thanet was not the only place where Ukip struggled. In 2017, seven of its 12 councillors in Great Yarmouth defected to the Conservatives – although to be fair, some defections elsewhere went the other way, including two Tory MPs, Douglas Carswell and Mark Reckless.

Maybe it will all be different this time. After today, Reform will have many more chances to show what it does with power. An era of milk, honey and joyful unity – or arsenic, ashes and destructive divisions?

Galaxy

Why would that matter, no vote they have made has made any difference for years.

Who are you talking about? Reform voters? Until now, their representatives haven't had a majority on any pubic body, but they do now. They can't pass the buck.

Reform voters have had exactly the same democratic representation as I have had. I have never lived in any constituency or council where my vote has ever counted. The answer isn't to vote for somebody who will make my situation worse just for the satisfaction of sticking up two fingers.

The answer isn't to vote for somebody who will make my situation worse just for the satisfaction of sticking up two fingers.

Perhaps they're angrier, poorer and more disillusioned than you. Maybe they're hoping that their vote will make Starmer ask why they're turning their backs on him, take notice of the poverty and decrepitude of their towns and start to do something about it. He's got time; but he'll have to start producing positive results fast and to do that, he'll need to engage with them. Not just drive through and think how grateful he is not to live there.

Thank you for that bit of history, Silverbrooks, what happened in Thanet.

The point about long standing parties is that they have experience at grassroots and councils and in Parliament political experience of weathering rows and disagreements and near splits and having to work with colleagues you don't like, or disagree with...

The vote of the people in Runcorn where Reform won by 6 votes counted. Looked up the vote in other areas and quite a number won by majorities of around 20 or 30. I expect more than a few people wished they'd turned up in Runcorn...or voted tactically...

It was the same after Brexit referendum Wyllow all those young ‘uns who went to Glasto then cried afterwards ‘they’ve stolen our opportunities …’.

Carlotta

^The answer isn't to vote for somebody who will make my situation worse just for the satisfaction of sticking up two fingers.^

Perhaps they're angrier, poorer and more disillusioned than you. Maybe they're hoping that their vote will make Starmer ask why they're turning their backs on him, take notice of the poverty and decrepitude of their towns and start to do something about it. He's got time; but he'll have to start producing positive results fast and to do that, he'll need to engage with them. Not just drive through and think how grateful he is not to live there.

Well, a lot of deprived areas benefitted greatly from EU funding when central government just chose to ignore them. And those areas voted overwhelmingly to leave the EU. Make sense of that what you will. Because I can’t.

Carlotta

^The answer isn't to vote for somebody who will make my situation worse just for the satisfaction of sticking up two fingers.^

Perhaps they're angrier, poorer and more disillusioned than you. Maybe they're hoping that their vote will make Starmer ask why they're turning their backs on him, take notice of the poverty and decrepitude of their towns and start to do something about it. He's got time; but he'll have to start producing positive results fast and to do that, he'll need to engage with them. Not just drive through and think how grateful he is not to live there.

Very few people are poorer than I am. I'm just lucky I live in a place which is quite pleasant, so I'm not surrounded by decrepitude.

I have been banging on for years about the divisions in the country and the need for more resources to be transferred from areas like mine to deprived areas.

I can't see anything that Reform has proposed so far will result in any improvement to deprived areas. Meanwhile, the inhabitants of areas like mine will just sit pretty and be voted the best town to live in the UK. Unfortunately, of course, even here there are poor people and we tend to get overlooked.

The country needs to see equality between regions as a higher priority, but County Councils can't achieve that and the opposite seems to be a feature of Reform's agenda.

Never mind! They were entitled to vote the way they did - just glad I won't be affected.

Very few people are poorer than I am. I'm just lucky I live in a place which is quite pleasant, so I'm not surrounded by decrepitude.

I doubt that the first statement can be true if the second is also true. 🤔

Wyllow3

The vote of the people in Runcorn where Reform won by 6 votes counted. Looked up the vote in other areas and quite a number won by majorities of around 20 or 30. I expect more than a few people wished they'd turned up in Runcorn...or voted tactically...

Background about Sarah Pochin, the new MP for Runcorn and Helsby.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sarah-pochin-mp-runcorn-reform-farage-election-b2743587.html

Interestingly, she was pictured at a “refugees welcome” event, stressing that her support only includes asylum seekers, branding those who cross the English Channel to enter Britain “illegal economic migrants - which shows a remarkable lack of understanding about the asylum system … so she will fit in perfectly with the other Reform MPs.

However:

She historically expressed support for means-testing the winter fuel payment.

I wonder how many pensioners, disgruntled at losing their WFP, voted for her yesterday?

Well, a lot of deprived areas benefitted greatly from EU funding when central government just chose to ignore them. And those areas voted overwhelmingly to leave the EU. Make sense of that what you will. Because I can’t.

Do you think levels of immigration into those areas might have had something to do with it?

Carlotta

^Well, a lot of deprived areas benefitted greatly from EU funding when central government just chose to ignore them. And those areas voted overwhelmingly to leave the EU. Make sense of that what you will. Because I can’t.^

Do you think levels of immigration into those areas might have had something to do with it?

Not in Wales, no. Not because there aren’t high levels of immigration, but because they aren’t in the areas which voted for Brexit in significant numbers. The level of immigration to the East of England, which is the Reform stronghold, also have the lowest number of immigrants in the UK.

Maremia

Mt61, may I ask you what has Farage ever done that could be described as 'patriotic'?

A lot more than Starmer.

Mt61

Maremia

Mt61, may I ask you what has Farage ever done that could be described as 'patriotic'?

A lot more than Starmer.

Apart from talk, Farage hasn’t done much at all, he isn’t in power, so how could he?

Carlotta

^Well, a lot of deprived areas benefitted greatly from EU funding when central government just chose to ignore them. And those areas voted overwhelmingly to leave the EU. Make sense of that what you will. Because I can’t.^

Do you think levels of immigration into those areas might have had something to do with it?

Or the fact that EU munificence (ha!) was just giving us back some of our OWN money … after all the UK were net contributors! No wonder they were cross we voted to leave the club.

Sorry Carlotta I meant to say in my last sentence in England, not in the UK.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Carlotta

Well, a lot of deprived areas benefitted greatly from EU funding when central government just chose to ignore them. And those areas voted overwhelmingly to leave the EU. Make sense of that what you will. Because I can’t.

Do you think levels of immigration into those areas might have had something to do with it?

Or the fact that EU munificence (ha!) was just giving us back some of our OWN money … after all the UK were net contributors! No wonder they were cross we voted to leave the club.

Maybe they distributed ‘our’ money more fairly then? Rather than ploughing it all into the SE?

Carlotta

^Well, a lot of deprived areas benefitted greatly from EU funding when central government just chose to ignore them. And those areas voted overwhelmingly to leave the EU. Make sense of that what you will. Because I can’t.^

Do you think levels of immigration into those areas might have had something to do with it?

What kind of immigration?

If you mean people crossing the Channel on boats, the answer is "no".

Casdon

Carlotta

Well, a lot of deprived areas benefitted greatly from EU funding when central government just chose to ignore them. And those areas voted overwhelmingly to leave the EU. Make sense of that what you will. Because I can’t.

Do you think levels of immigration into those areas might have had something to do with it?

Not in Wales, no. Not because there aren’t high levels of immigration, but because they aren’t in the areas which voted for Brexit in significant numbers. The level of immigration to the East of England, which is the Reform stronghold, also have the lowest number of immigrants in the UK.

That's not quite true. Areas in Fenland have high levels of EU immigration.

woodenspoon

It’d be interesting to know where David49 lives to see exactly why unfettered immigration isn’t of concern to this poster.

Nice little village tucked away