Solid Trump rejection. So what happened in the U.K.?

Isn’t it rude to describe someone who acknowledges and wants to do something about the threat of climate change ‘loopy’ ?

I won't say the Greens are loopy at all but I am puzzled by the fact that the Labour/Green coalition in charge of our Council want to build hundreds of homes on an area which could be liable to flooding and which is an area designated as an area of SSI.

MayBee70

sundowngirl

"But how would anyone explain why people are willing to vote for a Trump supporting political party, rather than an alternative, like the greens, Liberals etc"

Because I don't like or believe in the policies of the greens (too much like those of the loopy Ed Milliband) or Liberals (who want to drag us back into the EU at any cost) and if we don't agree with you WW2 we are called daft, stupid or idiots - how very rude!

Isn’t it rude to describe someone who acknowledges and wants to do something about the threat of climate change ‘loopy’ ? Unlike climate change denier Farage. And maybe, in the current political climate, what’s wrong with realising that we need closer ties with the EU?

Maybe not the person himself but definitely his policies are loopy. Even Tony Blair and other Labour MPs agree that Ed Milliband's race to net zero is doomed to failure and they criticise his phasing out of fossil fuels too quickly, ... We could be looking at blackouts like those experienced in Spain and Portugal
From what I see Germany and France are not doing any better economically that we are and some would say worse than us

sundowngirl

"But how would anyone explain why people are willing to vote for a Trump supporting political party, rather than an alternative, like the greens, Liberals etc"

Because I don't like or believe in the policies of the greens (too much like those of the loopy Ed Milliband) or Liberals (who want to drag us back into the EU at any cost) and if we don't agree with you WW2 we are called daft, stupid or idiots - how very rude!

Isn’t it rude to describe someone who acknowledges and wants to do something about the threat of climate change ‘loopy’ ? Unlike climate change denier Farage. And maybe, in the current political climate, what’s wrong with realising that we need closer ties with the EU?

I think you are right Cossy. People don't look closely at policies and just accept what they hear from Farage.
It doesn't mean they're stupid. It probably means they are too busy making ends meet and looking after children or others to delve into what Reform really are.
I mentioned earlier some of their policies which will prove to be useless.

"But how would anyone explain why people are willing to vote for a Trump supporting political party, rather than an alternative, like the greens, Liberals etc"

Because I don't like or believe in the policies of the greens (too much like those of the loopy Ed Milliband) or Liberals (who want to drag us back into the EU at any cost) and if we don't agree with you WW2 we are called daft, stupid or idiots - how very rude!

In general - yes I agree we could do with a "state of the nation address" after 10 months that alludes to all the issues, national and international. but that says "what we have one or set in action"

There was no way the journey you describe Maybee could have been turned around in just 10 months.

The trouble is that people are not just reflecting on 10 months but the accumulation of years of neglect before that to reach this stage.

Labour should say what it has done and put into action, as many of their plans are 2/3 year plans before they come into fruition.

So many, many, demands on the budget people only recall briefly or recall depending on their circumstances. So much thrown at them beyond their control.

So many things GN's have rightly said "this or that has to be urgently addressed" but meeting the needs don't add up to what is available.

As regards what makes people decide how to vote, if they don't follow the news closely....just an example of one,

I have an interesting weekly walk with a friend who isn't political as in party political and doesn't watch the news much because it's depressing.

She's well informed about matters that ^affect her directly*

(she has a son with autism...has fought for him.....by coincidence she has a friend that is trans so she is very accepting from knowing that particular person....)....but if it comes to international effects on the budget simply no information as to say what tariffs are....or what causes energy prices to change...

She knows about diversity simply because of her son and the fact that her grandma was Italian and she looks it and yes she got bullied at school for that....her daughter works with extremely disturbed children behaviourally.....so she naturally is inclined to look at the education and caring sectors.

There must be so many like my friend, informed and active - as far as the issues that they know well. (She thinks Trump is a dangerous idiot btw and glad we live in the UK....thats because her sister lives in Canada).

No, I don't ask her what she votes - just saying, it often really depends on experiences - but she has been involved enough in social affairs not to believe in magical answers.

AGAA4

Cossy Reform have achieved nothing but Farage can "talk the talk" and people want to believe him. Maybe he has given some people hope for a better future. Who
can blame them if they have nothing?
Personally I would never vote for Reform.

I completely get that, hope is eternal, but so also is reality. The reality is Reform do not have one “workable policy” prior to the GE some of Farage’s comment re stopping the boats were reprehensible
Despite him claiming they were “tongue in cheek” for example “shooting at the from the shore” Some of his MPs since the election have advocated simply towing them back to France, giving them a “life saver” device and getting them to swim back, and latterly, according to Starmer, voting against a bill to give give more legal powers to stop the boats
www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/sir-keir-starmer-hits-out-31558558.amp

So perhaps the majority of Reform aren’t stupid or idiots, just don’t take the time and trouble to actually make themselves less ill-informed

Cossy

MayBee70

The Labour Party needs to get the it’s act together PR wise. I was speaking to someone who worked on LBC and he said Labour are awful to deal with. He also said that Farage is very pleasant in person and great to deal with ( but that Tice and Oakshott are horrible). They desperately need an Alastair Campbell. Also lifelong voters like me are now wondering what they actually stand for these days. And there has to be signs that things are improving in the country. Driving back home yesterday from the north to the midlands nothing seemed to look remotely better than the last time I did that journey. Everything about the country looks tired and depressed.The upside is that I no longer feel embarrassed by our PM when it comes to international affairs but I guess that isn’t as important to many voters.

Do you think, maybe, part of the issue is that the LP are very poor at telling us of the positives thing they have/are putting in place? Coupled with the media mostly enjoying constantly parroting the negative things out into place like “means testing” the WFA (I agree with the principle, but disagree with the roll out and cut off points).

They know they’re up against the media and should act accordingly. I wrote to Sky News a while back to complain about how critical they were of Labour compared to other parties. I must admit to not watching the news these days, though, as I can’t stomach seeing and hearing either Farage or Trump every time I turn it on.

Turnout for local council elections is often very poor anyway, and doesn’t often bear much relation to what happens in a future GE.

Starmer comes across (to me anyway) as weak, gloomy and
scared. Labour are IMO in dire need of a more positive, upbeat, inspiring leader.

Cossy Reform have achieved nothing but Farage can "talk the talk" and people want to believe him. Maybe he has given some people hope for a better future. Who
can blame them if they have nothing?
Personally I would never vote for Reform.

MayBee70

The Labour Party needs to get the it’s act together PR wise. I was speaking to someone who worked on LBC and he said Labour are awful to deal with. He also said that Farage is very pleasant in person and great to deal with ( but that Tice and Oakshott are horrible). They desperately need an Alastair Campbell. Also lifelong voters like me are now wondering what they actually stand for these days. And there has to be signs that things are improving in the country. Driving back home yesterday from the north to the midlands nothing seemed to look remotely better than the last time I did that journey. Everything about the country looks tired and depressed.The upside is that I no longer feel embarrassed by our PM when it comes to international affairs but I guess that isn’t as important to many voters.

Do you think, maybe, part of the issue is that the LP are very poor at telling us of the positives thing they have/are putting in place? Coupled with the media mostly enjoying constantly parroting the negative things out into place like “means testing” the WFA (I agree with the principle, but disagree with the roll out and cut off points).

The Labour Party needs to get the it’s act together PR wise. I was speaking to someone who worked on LBC and he said Labour are awful to deal with. He also said that Farage is very pleasant in person and great to deal with ( but that Tice and Oakshott are horrible). They desperately need an Alastair Campbell. Also lifelong voters like me are now wondering what they actually stand for these days. And there has to be signs that things are improving in the country. Driving back home yesterday from the north to the midlands nothing seemed to look remotely better than the last time I did that journey. Everything about the country looks tired and depressed.The upside is that I no longer feel embarrassed by our PM when it comes to international affairs but I guess that isn’t as important to many voters.

Have to say Trump didn’t even know who Dutton is. Dutton was never going to get anywhere near winning, they chose the wrong leader. No policies, wavering around,just not the right ‘image’. Very gracious in defeat though. He lost his seat so no longer a politician. Nothing like any of the Reform people in any way, very different problems and a huge and diverse country with many different ideologies.

Cossy

WW2 I don’t think you are in a minority of one, nor did I find your post “goady”

Who on earth else is to “blame” in elections for people winning other than the voters?

I’m disappointed with the main two parties however I’d cut off my arm before I’d vote for Reform!

😊 that’s cheered me up.

Sorry MPs!

AGAA4

I don't believe this is a protest vote for many. People are desperate now and things get worse and worse. They may have voted Labour and have found that they are targeting the most vulnerable in society so must be very disillusioned.
Voting Reform is a desperation vote as any port in a storm and Reform have actually listened.

Have they listened? What have they actually achieved with their five MOs?

WW2 I don’t think you are in a minority of one, nor did I find your post “goady”

Who on earth else is to “blame” in elections for people winning other than the voters?

I’m disappointed with the main two parties however I’d cut off my arm before I’d vote for Reform!

I don't believe this is a protest vote for many. People are desperate now and things get worse and worse. They may have voted Labour and have found that they are targeting the most vulnerable in society so must be very disillusioned.
Voting Reform is a desperation vote as any port in a storm and Reform have actually listened.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Another goady comment in your OP from you Whitewave.
If being called ‘stupid’ fits my mindset and viewpoint then so be it.
Water off a duck’s back comes to mind.

Anyway I’m still hoping Starmer succeeds at something but the runes aren’t promising.

No wonder the majority of voters are disillusioned.

What exactly has Starmer actually “failed” in the short 10 months he’s been in power?

Whitewavemark2

Oh well.

Being in the minority of one certainly isn’t comfortable, and I suspect that my posts have not explained very well where I’m coming from.

But what I do know is that you are all wrong in your assumptions😊. I shall die on this mountain😄.

I won’t waste any more of your time.

Be in no doubt that we know exactly where you’re coming from.

AGAA4

I think if people looked into what Reform are planning they may be less keen.
They are going to cut diversity in all the councils they hold. Sounds familiar. As there is only one diversity officer in all of their councils how much money will that save.
The plan to put asylum seekers in tents will cause problems. Where will all the tents be located? Residents may not want a campsite on their doorstep.
Their plans seem a bit flaky.

The people I know don’t care how little is spent on diversity officers. All they know is, money is being spent on the above when it has no relevance to them.
Not when you’re living in a mould infested house, and another one who has waited 8 years for the council to fix a horrendous problem with an overflowing toilet.
I could regale with many more reasons why people are turning against the mainstream but I’m sure you get my drift.

Galaxy

The green party .
They aren't voting against Labour, they are voting against them all. The green party has very little to say of relevance to voters in the deprived areas of County Durham.

They mean nothing to the people I volunteer with who live in sub standard social housing here in Southend.

petra

^But how would anyone explain why people are willing to vote for a Trump supporting party rather than an alternative^
They give hope where the others don’t.
It might be false hope but that’s all they have.

I'm finding it hard to understand why, so many people, and Labour in particular, are failing to understand this blatantly obvious reason.

This was never good enough, Wyllow

The Labour Party (or if the Conservatives were in power) can and couldn't offer instant "jam today". Labour plans are long term ones and it has always made that clear.

We've had 40+ years of worsening inequality and an acceleration of poverty. People have had enough and feel Labour are doing nothing to give them hope of any quick improvement.

It's not as though Labour 'couldn't' make some improvements. They just need to abandon their ridiculous fiscal policy..

It was only a 30% turnout but it’s concerning nonetheless. Yes, people are very ill-informed and I hope it’s not Brexit all over again.

Voters individually are the opposite of stupid - I think people are generally more canny now than we ever were.
But "public opinion" & " the man in the street" have often seemed stupid to me.
A parallel was football hooligans - not criminal thugs outside of a football stadium by any definition, but put them together on match day & they behaved like animals.
People are like sheep when it comes to politics & crowd behaviour I think - follow the one who seems sure where they're going, not the one that has the most sense.
How canI look at the USA charade & say voters aren't stupid?