Israel to "conquer" Gaza

Incredibly weird Wyllow3 so the governance of Israel and the complete mess in Gaza takes second place to the Saudi American trade deal? Surely not?

Whitewavemark2

As an aside - that plane can’t be a personal gift to Trump surely?

Isn’t it a gift to the USA?

Really, the very last thing the US needs is the gift of an airliner, the hundreds in government service, someone has got their wires crossed with this story. As a gift to Trump personally its not much use it’s to big to use conveniently, a smaller private jet is much more use and cheaper to run,

David49

Whitewavemark2

As an aside - that plane can’t be a personal gift to Trump surely?

Isn’t it a gift to the USA?

Really, the very last thing the US needs is the gift of an airliner, the hundreds in government service, someone has got their wires crossed with this story. As a gift to Trump personally its not much use it’s to big to use conveniently, a smaller private jet is much more use and cheaper to run,

Well my feeling is "surely not" too, Ronib, it seems to be appalling - but in terms of the US I'm only reporting what's in the news.

There is more in the detail of the articles I posted but the US is playing its cards close to its chest.

And neither of the articles relate what the Saudi position is either, although they report both Quatar and Egypt calling for a cease fire and negotiations and Trump called the hostage release quote

“monumental news “step taken in good faith toward the United States and the efforts of the mediators – Qatar and Egypt – to put an end to this very brutal war and return ALL living hostages and remains to their loved ones.”

Sorry, my quote was supposed to have been from Ronib

I got the wrong country😊

“The White House is in discussions with the royal family of Qatar to possibly receive a luxury jumbo jet, intended for use as an Air Force One presidential plane.”

BBC

Washington Post is saying the plane will be put into Trump's presidential library when he leaves office, therefore he will have access and use of it as the ex POTUS. Yet more corruption and let's not forget that the Investment fund managed by Jared Kushner was funded by Saudi Arabia!

It seems to me that corruption by Trump and his family is massive.

The issue is what effect/how will it affect relationships between Trump/Netanyahu and what role will Trump now play in Gaza? Saudi has in the past pushed for a two state solution. Until now it has not accepted Israeli passports.

"Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, the country’s de facto leader, has stated unequivocally that Riyadh won’t normalize relations with Israel until there is a clear path for Palestinian statehood and a permanent end to the war in Gaza — neither of which appears imminent"

Will they all just now ignore the situation in the face of $$$$ deals?

CNN said today that Trump will not be stopping in Israel.

In a long article on Trump and the Middle East you have to go to the end to find a headline "The Israel elephant in the room"

"“The problem of course underlying all of this trip is the unsettled nature of the war in Gaza remains a bottleneck to any kind of breakthrough,” said Daniel Shapiro, a distinguished fellow with the Atlantic Council’s Scowcroft Middle East Security Initiative and former US ambassador to Israel.

Trump, Shapiro said, could use the trip to “unstick that bottleneck” and avoid “this major Israeli military operation that’s been forecast and approved by the cabinet, getting hostages out, getting humanitarian aid in, and taking some steps towards Hamas’ removal.”

Nothing has been reported about the original plan that the US would provide aid in a southern ghetto.

quotes are from edition.cnn.com/2025/05/12/politics/trump-middle-east-what-to-watch

I feel anger towards these leaders playing $$$$$ and now what for those hostage families and the peoples of Gaza?

Ultimately of course Israel depends on US money. I just hope that back channels are at work now Trump won't go himself to Israel.

David49

“Hamas will not return the hostages they still have without getting something in return as this has been the normal practice in dealing with Israel. They do not care about Palestinian civilians which is why the wider world has to care about what happens to them.”

All the rest of the world has done so far is spread Hamas propaganda and provide aid the Hamas gets the credit for distributing. They have actually made Hamas stronger and increased the Gazan dependance on Hamas.

I'm afraid to say that you are completely wrong David. The Netanyahu government deliberately allowed Hamas to become stronger because Netanyahu wanted a counter balance to Fatah. I have posted a link to a video several times which shows Netanyahu saying this. Gaza has been dependent on Hamas since 2006 as since then they have had administrative control of Gaza. I'm sure there are some media that are pro Hamas but generally the reporting in the world media has condemned Hamas and the taking of hostages whilst raising the issue of the treatment of Gazan civilians. If you can find any respectable media spreading Hamas propaganda please give a link. I would add that criticism of the way that Israel is conducting this war is not spreading Hamas propaganda. Aid to Gaza (when it is allowed in by Israel) is distributed by UNRWA not Hamas although I'm sure Hamas gets more than it's fair share, however, that is a separate issue and certainly not a reason for starving civilians which is a war crime.
Editorial headline in Haaretz today, "Fear, Censorship and Repression are keeping Israelis in the dark about Gaza" another lead article headline, "No, Netanyahu, Gaza is not a war for Israel's survival". Are you suggesting that even Israeli Jewish media is spreading Hamas propaganda?

Wyllow3

Ultimately of course Israel depends on US money. I just hope that back channels are at work now Trump won't go himself to Israel.

Yes, but given the level of corruption in the Trump family, they have a lot to loose if they give up on the idea of a Gaza Riviera.

I think at the moment it is odds on that a Trump will visit Israel, although Middle Eastern countries appear to be pussy-footing around him as well, and they are supportive in some cases of Gaza. But I rather think that they have their eyes on much larger lucrative prises.

We shall see.

I think the Riviera idea is well dead and gone once the realities of the situation have come to light.
Its the plight of those concerned on both sides that matters but how much does Trump care when he's found how intractable it really is?

Trump doesn't care about Israel or Gaza, tbh I can envisage him walking away from Israel unless Netanyahu shows him more deference and that's not a characteristic BN shows as a rule!

foxie48

David49

“Hamas will not return the hostages they still have without getting something in return as this has been the normal practice in dealing with Israel. They do not care about Palestinian civilians which is why the wider world has to care about what happens to them.”

All the rest of the world has done so far is spread Hamas propaganda and provide aid the Hamas gets the credit for distributing. They have actually made Hamas stronger and increased the Gazan dependance on Hamas.

I'm afraid to say that you are completely wrong David. The Netanyahu government deliberately allowed Hamas to become stronger because Netanyahu wanted a counter balance to Fatah. I have posted a link to a video several times which shows Netanyahu saying this. Gaza has been dependent on Hamas since 2006 as since then they have had administrative control of Gaza. I'm sure there are some media that are pro Hamas but generally the reporting in the world media has condemned Hamas and the taking of hostages whilst raising the issue of the treatment of Gazan civilians. If you can find any respectable media spreading Hamas propaganda please give a link. I would add that criticism of the way that Israel is conducting this war is not spreading Hamas propaganda. Aid to Gaza (when it is allowed in by Israel) is distributed by UNRWA not Hamas although I'm sure Hamas gets more than it's fair share, however, that is a separate issue and certainly not a reason for starving civilians which is a war crime.
Editorial headline in Haaretz today, "Fear, Censorship and Repression are keeping Israelis in the dark about Gaza" another lead article headline, "No, Netanyahu, Gaza is not a war for Israel's survival". Are you suggesting that even Israeli Jewish media is spreading Hamas propaganda?

Even the BBC has been biased towards Hamas the vast majority of coverage has been anti Israel, provided by Al Jazzera and other Arab sources with no verification. It’s pretty blatantly obvious that Hamas has been deliberately using civilians as human shields, why else would they use Hospitals and Schools as military bases.
We know the UN has been employing Hamas members to distribute aid and supplying them with food, the security in Gaza is run by Hamas nothing happens without their say so.

As for The IDF allowing the October attack that just the kind of conspiracy theory worthy of a Hamas supporter.

Are you saying I am a supporter of Hamas*David*?

trump’s Presidential Library! What? There was no mention of one during his first presidency. If there is one, I imagine it will be filled with comics and that plane he is being given. You couldn’t make it up. The number of PhD theses that will be written in the future about this man is mind boggling

"Bibi saved them. Bibi made a deal with Qatar and they started to move millions and millions of dollars to Gaza." At a Likud party conference in 2019, Benjamin Netanyahu said: "Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas".

David I can't be bothered to find the video of Netanyahu saying this, I've posted it in the past but it is common knowledge of anyone who knows anything about Israeli politics!

This is the trouble with people talking about BBC bias.
It's something I hear a lot, but the weird thing is half the people I talk to think BBC is anti-Israeli and the other half think BBC is far too pro-Israeli.They both think that it's biased though.

Valdavi Twas ever thus, Labour or Tory , israel or Palistine. it seems to me that the bbc is doing its job.

foxie48

"Bibi saved them. Bibi made a deal with Qatar and they started to move millions and millions of dollars to Gaza." At a Likud party conference in 2019, Benjamin Netanyahu said: "Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas".

David I can't be bothered to find the video of Netanyahu saying this, I've posted it in the past but it is common knowledge of anyone who knows anything about Israeli politics!

There have been attempts to deny Netanyahu's previous policies, including what he allegedly said (especially since the attack).

This is one report from 2019 about Netanyahu's policy of supporting Gaza, in an attempt to undermine the West Bank and Fatah:

www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/netanyahu-money-to-hamas-part-of-strategy-to-keep-palestinians-divided-583082

There are others.

valdavi

This is the trouble with people talking about BBC bias.
It's something I hear a lot, but the weird thing is half the people I talk to think BBC is anti-Israeli and the other half think BBC is far too pro-Israeli.They both think that it's biased though.

I've just looked this up and yes there are complaints that the BBC is pro Israeli as well as pro Palestine.

The BBC always gives where it got news from. it's always clear for example on numbers that its "x claims that Y were killed. And if there is specific reporting, whether it's from an international aid agency.

They cover Israeli politics and policies as well just as much, including the tensions between different parties. I check in most days with BBC and CNN.

but you cant do much better than as reported in the Independent, November 2024, which headlined

"More than 100 BBC staff accuse broadcaster of Israel bias in Gaza coverage
Exclusive: More than 230 media industry professionals sign letter sent to BBC director general Tim Davie

"In a letter sent to Tim Davie, signed by more than 230 members of the media industry, including 101 anonymous BBC staff, the corporation is criticised for failing its own editorial standards by lacking “consistently fair and accurate evidence-based journalism in its coverage of Gaza”.

Seen exclusively by The Independent, the letter, which has also been signed by Sayeeda Warsi and the actor Juliet Stevenson, calls on the BBC to report “without fear or favour” and to “recommit to the highest editorial standards – with emphasis on fairness, accuracy, and due impartiality”.

"The letter also calls on the broadcaster to implement a series of editorial commitments including “reiterating that Israel does not give external journalists access to Gaza; making it clear when there is insufficient evidence to back up Israeli claims; making clear where Israel is the perpetrator in article headlines; including regular historical context predating October 2023; and robustly challenging Israeli government and military representatives in all interviews”."

David49 You don't have to be a Hamas supporter to criticise Netanyahu's former policies towards to Gaza. It seems quite clear that he thought the threats to Israel would come from the West Bank as a result of Israel's support for settlers. Since the latest coalition was formed, there has been a huge increase in the amount of money which has gone to support the military in the West Bank - their job is to protect the settlers and turn a blind eye to any violations of international law.

Accusations that Netanyahu took his eye off Gaza by concentrating on the West Bank have come from Israeli insiders - including some senior military and political people. The situation in Israel/Palestine needs an understanding of Israeli domestic politics.

It really is simplistic/childish to accuse somebody who mentions Netanyahu's objectives as a conspiracy theory as a Hamas supporter. It's doubtful whether Netanyahu did anything to encourage the attack. However, there are questions to be answered about why support took so long to arrive, why resources were being concentrated in the West Bank rather than the border with Gaza, why Netanyahu turned a blind eye to the money which was being sent from Qatar to Gaza, when he would have been fully aware that Hamas was using some of it for building tunnels and weapons.

Re BBC Bias: OK, just check out today and tell me "where is the bias?"

www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c30qlp9qyq1t

BTW, US envoy Steve Witkoff is now in Israel so presumably talks will begin.

David49 I agree
So many pro Palestine supporters are either deliberately or naively doing all hamas’s PR work.

Wyllow3

Re BBC Bias: OK, just check out today and tell me "where is the bias?"

www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c30qlp9qyq1t

BTW, US envoy Steve Witkoff is now in Israel so presumably talks will begin.

There is much anti Israel bias from the Beeb.
Why do you suppose they won’t ever call them terrorists?