Is there an argument for saying that UK citizens who support Trump are unpatriotic?

Iam64
Who knows?

PoliticsNerd

It's okay folks, calm down. I think we all know now that posting has to fit into a tiny little cliche on this forum. There are definitely pleasanter places to be.

Do you mean tiny little clique, or are you suggesting tiny little people are only capable of thinking in cliches? Predictive text can change meaning

AuntieE

In peace-time you can admire another country's leader or politics all you want. I cannot see how doing so can be seen as unpatriotic. Presumably , you still prefer your own country to any other? If you don't, then you should consider moving to the country you prefer.

The compliments GN e.g. about President Macron, or Angela Merkel illustrate just what you’re saying.

I suppose, politicsnerd, that most of us didn't realise early enough that you wanted to debate the meaning of "patriotism".

If the thread had been called that, those of us who didn't want to debate that would have skipped on by.

I wrote a long piece early on asking what really the thread was about because it was seemingly pointless and I couldn't get a handle on what you really wanted.
I read it back to myself and decided I was a bit snippy so I deleted it.

I think a simpler heading - maybe "what does patriotism mean to you?" or "what do you think are the main elements of being patriotic?" (for example) may have drawn the conversation into a more productive area.

This is something I've definitely pondered and discussed at home.

But it doesn't.
There are by my last count, twenty thousand threads on Trump, and quite frequent discussion of why people might support him. I suspect we have even had some previous analysis around patriotism and Trump supporters ( at least in relation to America) so it would fit in well with what you describe as the cliches. People will respond in the way they see fit, it isn't possible to control the way people want to debate.

In peace-time you can admire another country's leader or politics all you want. I cannot see how doing so can be seen as unpatriotic. Presumably , you still prefer your own country to any other? If you don't, then you should consider moving to the country you prefer.

It's okay folks, calm down. I think we all know now that posting has to fit into a tiny little cliche on this forum. There are definitely pleasanter places to be.

Iam64

I’m inclined to agree with Oreo - this is a silly thread. I’m not sure of the how’s n ways that led to the view of two

I agree that it’s l a silly thread too.
Even answering yes or no is offering an opinion and before it even got going, we were told the OP didn’t want opinions - well not opinions that didn’t fit her opinion of what an opinion should be anyway.

What did Avolon say to encourage that Politics Nerd ?

Okay Avalon. I can't say I'm not disappointed but I will "so called" debate elsewhere.

That’s rather rude halfpintI and somewhat bigoted or are you just being provocative? It’s also off piste from the “debate”.

Patriotism is to take pride in your country. It does not preclude supporting or admiring another country or leader. It also does not necessarily blind you to wanting to make your country better. I really cannot see the point of this so called debate.

Traump is a fraud and an opportunist.
He is using the 'cover' of Patriotism to appeal to the person
who blames everyone and everything for their own personal
situation.
In reality he is feathering his own nest and keeping other
opportunists satisfied with financial gain.
He and Farage are manipulators but both have little intelligence to go with it. Those who follow are of the same
ilk.

Honestly, I'm feeling a bit disheartened. My suggestions were meant to be 'coulds' and 'woulds' to spark a wider debate, not to share my personal views. I thought that kind of open discussion would be beneficial. Am I wrong to think debates here could be more than just yes/no opinions and challenges to those who don't conform? It seems I might just have to accept that's the reality."

PoliticsNerd

Shouldn't a UK citizen's primary loyalty and concern be for the well-being and interests of their own country? Supporting a foreign leader, especially one whose policies can be seen as detrimental to UK interests or values, could be viewed as a betrayal of that loyalty. If you see Trump's policies as harmful to the UK economy then supporting him could be seen as putting a foreign agenda before their own nation's.

Also a UK citizen seen as undermining or criticising UK institutions while praising those of another nation could be interpreted as unpatriotic.

This is probably just another matter of perception but I do begin to feel that the support by some for a foreign leader and therefore a foreign country is now becoming questionable.

Perhaps this could be compared with communist supporters during the cold war, but of course there will be other views too.

Is that all foreign leaders or just those who you don't like?

I’m inclined to agree with Oreo - this is a silly thread. I’m not sure of the how’s n ways that led to the view of two

I agree, it didn't. But if you read on from the title it quickly became apparent that definition of patriotism seemed crucial for a worthwhile debate on the thread topic.

Could we perhaps shift our focus back to discussing the definition of patriotism itself? I'm really interested in a productive conversation which includes everyone's thoughts on the concept of patriotism.

But that is not what the op says. It doesn’t say - what is a meaningful understanding of the concept of “patriotism” it merely asks if there was an argument ……….. etc.

Whitewavemark2

Of course there is. You can make an argument against/for anything.

True. Perhaps I should have asked what the arguments were and if their appeared to be a concensus. What do you would have been the best way to put it?

PoliticsNerd you misinterpreted my post.

Are you using the information posted on this thread for your dissertation or an essay/piece you are writing?

Re your post Wed 07-May-25 13:37:11 Mollygo, the answer is in my post 07-May-25 10:22:35.

GrannyGravy13 To have a meaningful discussion about whether UK citizens who support Donald Trump could be considered unpatriotic, we first need to agree on what 'patriotism' actually means. Without a shared understanding of the term we simply talk past each other.

However, if you use such things it for a 'dissertation or essay' I'm glad we've helped.

Of course there is. You can make an argument against/for anything.

PoliticsNerd is this thread just an information gathering exercise for a dissertation or essay?

MayBee70

I’m patriotic in that I was proud to live in a country that was so tolerant but I’m not proud of seeing it veer to the right.

So would you say:-

Patriotism is: a pride in a nation's values, like tolerance, and a concern when those values appear to be shifting away from them.

Or

Patriotism is: celebrating a country's positive qualities, such as tolerance, while also being critical when its direction moves in a way that contradicts those ideals.

I've tried them with a different emphasis but you may have a different one.