Is there an argument for saying that UK citizens who support Trump are unpatriotic?

I’m patriotic in that I was proud to live in a country that was so tolerant but I’m not proud of seeing it veer to the right.

This is a silly thread.

25Avalon

You can support Trump and be patriotic and vice versa. One does not exclude the other.

I agree

So PN do you agree that fighting for one’s country may not be necessary for being patriotic?

Now let me think . . .
Oh I know. I don’t have to answer that.

Mollygo

Patriotism - a willingness to fight for your country’s freedom

So if you’d rather try mediation than killing you’re not patriotic.

Or you’re too old/young to actively fight or you’re a conscientious objector, you’re not patriotic.

If you live in one country but your roots are in another, for which country should you fight? Especially if fighting for your country causes harm to one or the other.

So if we try to include your definition, starting Patriotism: how would you word it Mollygo?

Patriotism carried to extremes can lead to Jingoism, as in "If my country want to annexe your country they are entitled to, whatever your wishes, because we are more important than you are, and besides, we have a much more powerful miltary force than you do, as well as more economicpower"

Patriotism - a willingness to fight for your country’s freedom

So if you’d rather try mediation than killing you’re not patriotic.

Or you’re too old/young to actively fight or you’re a conscientious objector, you’re not patriotic.

If you live in one country but your roots are in another, for which country should you fight? Especially if fighting for your country causes harm to one or the other.

PoliticsNerd

Shouldn't a UK citizen's primary loyalty and concern be for the well-being and interests of their own country?

I wasn't really asking for opinions.

"Patriotism is not enough. (I) must have no hatred or bitterness for anyone."
?

PoliticsNerd

I've just seen the post by Churchview.

We could add the definition:

Patriotism: often used to justify behaviour and views that are out of step with traditional British values of mutual respect, and tolerance.

I hope that acceptable Churchview and sorry if I've missed others. Please repeat them beginning with "Patriotism:". If people are still interested we can list them.

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

That's another definition.

Does it mean different things to different people?

How much does nostalgia play a part in it?

I want my country and the people in it to thrive and for it to be respected on the 'world stage' for its attempts to improve the lot of mankind. Is that patriotism? I dunno...

I've just seen the post by Churchview.

We could add the definition:

Patriotism: often used to justify behaviour and views that are out of step with traditional British values of mutual respect, and tolerance.

I hope that acceptable Churchview and sorry if I've missed others. Please repeat them beginning with "Patriotism:". If people are still interested we can list them.

If, as I explained, discussion doesn't ask for your "yes" or "no" opinion, then what is looked for is the supporting evidence. When people debate they should be able to put both sides of an argument so that the weight of those arguments can be judged. Avalon has summed it up with "You can support Trump and be patriotic and vice versa.", i.e., you can put arguments forward for either.

How about we define "patriotism" first? I am going to put forward a meaning which some people may use. It doesn't have to be mine and your description doesn't have to be yours; they are there to create discussion.

So, first attempt: Patriotism: a sense of belonging, a feeling of love and pride, a willingness to fight for your country's freedom.

How would you define it?

I have a family member who approves of Trump.
He admires Trump's 'patriotism' and 'desire to put his country first'.

He feels we have lost that in Britain and so his support of Trump (totally misguided in my opinion) is coming from a place of patriotism.

He isn't unpatriotic - he is more 'patriotic' than me.

The notion of patriotism in the country has changed. To my mind it is now often used to justify behaviour and views that many, including me, find out of step with traditional British values of mutual respect, and tolerance.

I wonder if you were thinking of the Labour party and their admiration for all things communist over the last 100+ years or is your concern only for right wingers revering the likes of Trump?

Unless someone is actively supporting and campaigning for a leader of another nation who is actively at war with the U.K. of course it isn’t unpatriotic.

Over the years I have admired leaders of other nations, just as I have despaired about others.

I am extremely patriotic, adore my country of birth (UK) more so since living abroad.

I find it hard to understand why some people (yes I know, but am not sure how else to phrase it) accuse those who have voted differently to them or admire policies and indeed the ethos of another party are treated with disdain and on many occasions on GN called idiots, uneducated or on several threads suggesting a test in order to assess one’s capacity to vote…

Is there an argument for saying that UK citizens who support Trump are unpatriotic?

No.

I could add to that, but it would be an opinion and PN wasn't really asking for opinions.

You can support Trump and be patriotic and vice versa. One does not exclude the other.

The OP has asked in the thread title “ Is there an argument for saying that UK citizens who support Trump are unpatriotic?”

My answer is “No”.

MayBee70

I don’t understand how anyone could admire Trump, even more so having listened to his disjointed ramblings about Alcatraz. Even the people around him looked embarrassed and uncomfortable.

The Alcatraz idea was a joke, we visited last year, it’s tiny, only ever held around 200 prisoners, made notorious by films over the years. Compared with prisons even in the UK it was pretty tame, prisons today are far tougher, ruled by gangs within the prison.

I don’t understand how anyone could admire Trump, even more so having listened to his disjointed ramblings about Alcatraz. Even the people around him looked embarrassed and uncomfortable.

There is no connect between admiring another leader and wishing ones own country had a leader like him/her and being patriotic/unpatriotic

Even many of those who will betray their country in wartime, do it from misplaced patriotism.

No. Not at all.
You can love more than one country you know.

And deplore the government's of more than one country.

There is no link between patriotism and leadership it seems to me - if that's what you're asking.

I thought Brexit was all about taking back control? And yet companies eg Rolls Royce are now having to do exactly what Trump tells them if they want to trade with America.

Certainly Farage and Reform supporters seem to support a system similar to Trumps in the US, so there are a lot of non patriots

I'll make an opinion that isn't unfounded, but reasoned.
Seeing as we can't get into the head of anyone else to see what they're really really thinking, then it's impossible to know if anyone, as a UK citizen, is properly unpatriotic for supporting Trump.