Sir Keir Starmer’s speech this morning (12/05/25)

I am in the schools every day Wyllow,, all sorts of things impact the current situation in primary schools, (especially those in deprived areas) but it absolutely has an impact, I can pretend it doesn't but not sure how that helps. One of the first things those who offer services to support schools discuss is proportion of EAL in the school, alongside proportion of those with additional needs, pupil premium numbers, etc etc. There is nothing wrong with saying peoples experience of immigration differs.
This whole debate is about class. It's not the first class divide and it won't be the last.

And I think we are now at a situation where either Starmer tackles immigration or Reform will when they gain power. So either Labour do it in a way that people trust, or it will be done in a way that won't be pleasant to say the least. In my view the option of not seriously tackling it no longer exists, because I think the ballot box will ensure it happens. I don't say that from any particular standpoint, I am the daughter of an immigrant, but I think it is just where we are.

I have no problems saying it is a factor amongst many others, and also believe that multiculturalism brings benefits of its own as well.

But I'm sure you have met children and parents of immigrants who want to get as best an education as they can and want to learn and get on in life. My experience is second hand from my niece who is headteacher in an inner city (Hackney) primary school.

Pluses and minuses. I am so minded, as I read upthread, that although of course she of us have encountered medical staff whose English was not adequate, we rely on huge numbers of staff in the NHS whose English is perfectly adequate, and not only that, when we were going through Covid a higher % of BAME staff died whist caring for the population as a whole.

My, we have short memories.

correction, not "that although of course she of us have encountered medical staff...

but "that although of course some of us have encountered medical staff...

Well yes of course, I am the daughter of an immigrant as I said, I don't hold any firm view on immigration particularly, but I think it is important to recognise that those who support high levels of immigration often come at it from a very particular perspective, they hold quite a lot of power in the debate. Those whose experience is different have tried in every way to express the fact that they have concerns about immigration levels. Ignoring those concerns or labelling people as racist (I don't mean you are doing that) isn't going to work.

Galaxy

In my city across all primary schools the figure of those with English as a second language is 30% , in certain areas of the city it will be much higher. Of course this impacts on the quality of education. Now this had no impact on my children who got their education in a middle class village. People's experience of immigration is very different, often depending on the class you belong to.

That's what I was getting at above.

Galaxy

Well yes of course, I am the daughter of an immigrant as I said, I don't hold any firm view on immigration particularly, but I think it is important to recognise that those who support high levels of immigration often come at it from a very particular perspective, they hold quite a lot of power in the debate. Those whose experience is different have tried in every way to express the fact that they have concerns about immigration levels. Ignoring those concerns or labelling people as racist (I don't mean you are doing that) isn't going to work.

Yes. Ignoring or denigrating people with different experiences is always dangerous, as feeling unheard is added to their grievances. I think that is what is playing out now, and I really hope that the government can do something to stop it. My worry is that they are not saying enough about their strategy and giving some sort of timeline. They said at the start that their plans were long-term, but people don't seem able to go with that and were criticising them when things hadn't changed after a couple of weeks, and calling them liars for not being able to reverse 14 years of decline in 14 months. They really need to get a decent Comms team ASAP.

Yes, where is their Alistair Campbell equivalent. He was skilled at often getting the Blair government ahead of the news

Galaxy

And I think we are now at a situation where either Starmer tackles immigration or Reform will when they gain power. So either Labour do it in a way that people trust, or it will be done in a way that won't be pleasant to say the least. In my view the option of not seriously tackling it no longer exists, because I think the ballot box will ensure it happens. I don't say that from any particular standpoint, I am the daughter of an immigrant, but I think it is just where we are.

They are tackling immigration. You are just refusing to recognise that fact. How does that help anyone other than those with extremist views?

This goverment does not require the "trust" of those who will not educate themselves on this subject. Let's face it, no one will change their views. What they need is movement in a direction that is both legal and will begin to work, which is exactly what is happening.

I believe what Galaxy and others are saying is that the talk has to end up being the walk PoliticsNerd.
Setting out what should happen ( reform to help bring immigration down) is one thing, and a good one but it actually needs to produce results.

They really need to get a decent Comms team ASAP.

I think it will need far more than a decent comms team to make Labour a party worth voting for again.

Well what I am saying is that the population has been quite consistently voting for lower rates of immigration for at least 20 years, they have been labelled all sorts for holding that view, so yes they don't trust, and the last thing they would want is re education from people who are quite consistently wrong or out of touch on a range of issues.

Sorry at least 10 years that should say

My experience is very different from many here, three of our children attended our large local primary school, (they are now 22,24 & 27), their school had 46 different nationalities and a much higher ESOL pupils, coupled with much higher mobility.

The school took the decision to embrace this, any child arriving with little or no English immediately attended a two week English immersion scheme, parents were encouraged to come in and learn with their children, special assemblies were held to give all children an insight into the countries these children originated from, there were “special” lunches so children could try their food.

My favourite time was always Christmas, there was always a traditional Christmas nativity from the infants, it was great to see a mix of many nationalities, religions, colours, all taking part (Patents were written to prior to this and always given the option to withdraw their children, to my knowledge, none ever did)

I was a school governor, deputy chair, for 10+ and had the privilege of spending time in the school regularly, eating lunch with the children, reading, watching shows and assemblies.

None of my children were adversely affected by the high levels of ESOL, much due to a very strong Head and her amazing Senior Leadership Team.

Of course, in these times schools were adequately funded.

Sorry EAL children not ESOL.

^They are tackling immigration. You are just refusing to recognise that fact. How does that help anyone other than those with extremist views?

This goverment does not require the "trust" of those who will not educate themselves on this subject. Let's face it, no one will change their views.

There is so much wrong with these words. In my opinion.

Extremist views - are you lumping 90% of the population in that?

No one will change their views - I think the recent local elections have shown there is much change of views. Especially lately. More than I can remember for quite some time.

Trust in Labout is required.
Else as Galaxy mentions, things will go haywire.

fancythat

^They are tackling immigration. You are just refusing to recognise that fact. How does that help anyone other than those with extremist views?

This goverment does not require the "trust" of those who will not educate themselves on this subject. Let's face it, no one will change their views.

There is so much wrong with these words. In my opinion.

Extremist views - are you lumping 90% of the population in that?

No one will change their views - I think the recent local elections have shown there is much change of views. Especially lately. More than I can remember for quite some time.

Trust in Labout is required.
Else as Galaxy mentions, things will go haywire.

Trust and time!

fancythat

^They are tackling immigration. You are just refusing to recognise that fact. How does that help anyone other than those with extremist views?

This goverment does not require the "trust" of those who will not educate themselves on this subject. Let's face it, no one will change their views.

There is so much wrong with these words. In my opinion.

Extremist views - are you lumping 90% of the population in that?

No one will change their views - I think the recent local elections have shown there is much change of views. Especially lately. More than I can remember for quite some time.

Trust in Labout is required.
Else as Galaxy mentions, things will go haywire.

How are 90% defined fancythat ? I can't see where that comes from.

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you posted,

How many % of the population in the Uk do you think have extremist views?

Fancythat As I have not, at any point, referred to 90% of the populaton as extremist. It really is for you to explain where it comes from. That would make for a more constructive conversation.

I think you did, indeed, misread my post but I'm sure we can sort it out. After all, by default, individuals with extremist views will typically constitute only a small proportion of the population. If they were to form a majority, their beliefs would no longer be considered extreme relative to the overall perspective of that society.

I hope this help you clarify your reading of my post.

Fancythat
Nobody changed their view in the local elections, they always had those views.
What changed was that they believe they now have a party who they think has a good chance of representing their views in parliament.

PoliticsNerd thank you for your explanation.

petra - ooh, I wouldnt agree with that.
Some voters, including myself, change views.
Perhaps it shouldnt be called a view as such.
But if a Leader of a Party changes. If what they themselves dont do as expected or what they have said previously. If a Party is not handled, disipline wise well, if a Party seems to change priorities, any of these things and more, can make voters switch.

There are an increasing amount of voters switching parties lately.

I do think many people must have voted against their political beliefs in the local elections. I was reading an interesting and revealing survey from YouGov earlier.
yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/52080-where-do-britons-see-politicians-parties-and-themselves-on-the-left-right-spectrum
Fundamentally, I don’t think many who voted for Reform (but who define themselves as left wing, or moderately right wing) have yet understood quite how radical some of their intentions are, which seems to mirror what’s happening in the USA now Trump is actually in power.

petra

Fancythat
Nobody changed their view in the local elections, they always had those views.
What changed was that they believe they now have a party who they think has a good chance of representing their views in parliament.

I can’t help pointing out that as these were elections of local councillors, not MPs, these voters are no more likely to have their views represented in parliament today than they were before the local elections. There are still only 5 Reform MPs in parliament.

Voters voting for a party that they think will represent their views in parliament is hardly a new phenomenon. They do it all the time. I think it’s the party they vote for that changes, not the views.

Ooh, sorry, petra, you’d already said that about tge views not changing. I got carried away with my thoughts when posting🤭