Lucy Connolly appeal Rejected

LizzieDrip

nanna do you have any examples of just how our freedom of speech is compromised in the UK?

As someone who lives here, I haven’t noticed, but maybe I’m not being vigilant enough, and you can enlighten me from the other side of the world.

Not condemning, just enquiring … because we are free to question and challenge others’ POV.

Coincidentally, I was just chatting with an Australian visitor about this.

They mentioned cases of women who have been arrested for holding silent vigils outside abortion clinics. In one case, the police eventually dropped the charges and the woman was awarded compensation. The woman had been accused of breaching a Public Spaces Protection Order (PSPO) brought in by Birmingham City Council.

She is not the only one who has been arrested for holding a silent vigil.

There was no evidence that the loss of her child was affecting her 12 years later. Not only that, but she she stated before trial that she would "play the mental health card".
🤔

Do you honestly not think that, having lost a young child, those memories did not affect her still? Do you not think that, even if latent, those feelings of loss and grief might not be triggered by hearing such horrendous news involving children?

I’m not sure that a silent vigil inside the protected zone outside an abortion clinic is not intimidating to a woman who is going through the door into the clinic. Surely the very presence is intimidating, and you can’t predict what the person holding the vigil will do.

Allira

^There was no evidence that the loss of her child was affecting her 12 years later. Not only that, but she she stated before trial that she would "play the mental health card".^
🤔

Do you honestly not think that, having lost a young child, those memories did not affect her still? Do you not think that, even if latent, those feelings of loss and grief might not be triggered by hearing such horrendous news involving children?

It was proven that her reaction was not wholly triggered by the murder of the young girls though, she had expressed equally abhorrent views beforehand.

Calling posters who don’t always share your views a lefty mob 🤔

Mm indeed🤔

Losing a child must be horrific, and I can't imagine how it must affect a mother. I don't see how it can cause murderous racism though.

LizzieDrip

^Calling posters who don’t always share your views a lefty mob 🤔^

Mm indeed🤔

I think mob has different connotations in Australia than in the UK. As anyone with Australian connections might know but people here might not.
It just means a group of people with something in common.

LizzieDrip

^Calling posters who don’t always share your views a lefty mob 🤔^

Mm indeed🤔

It's just an excuse not to read the actual appeal trial statement with all the evidence submitted on behalf of Connelly and just how much it actually was taken into consideration.

After being offered the chance to read it, instead of commentating on the matter at hand, making a comment like "lefty mob" is just designed to provoke.

We dont have to rise to it - this thread has so many different POV its meaningless.

Allira

LizzieDrip

Calling posters who don’t always share your views a lefty mob 🤔

Mm indeed🤔

I think mob has different connotations in Australia than in the UK. As anyone with Australian connections might know but people here might not.
It just means a group of people with something in common.

"In Australia, "mob" is a term used by Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people to refer to their group or community, often related to a specific place or "Country". It can represent an extended family, clan, or wider Aboriginal community. The term is used to identify who someone is and where they are from"

Is this a left/right issue? I don't see it like that at all. Extremists on both left and right limit 'free' speech, surely?

Casdon

Allira

There was no evidence that the loss of her child was affecting her 12 years later. Not only that, but she she stated before trial that she would "play the mental health card".
🤔

Do you honestly not think that, having lost a young child, those memories did not affect her still? Do you not think that, even if latent, those feelings of loss and grief might not be triggered by hearing such horrendous news involving children?

It was proven that her reaction was not wholly triggered by the murder of the young girls though, she had expressed equally abhorrent views beforehand.

You have made the point I was going to make.

Moreover, the judge acknowledged Connolly's genuine loss, but pointed out that her immediate reaction was not to express solidarity or sympathy for the parents who had lost daughters, but to incite others to murder.

Doodledog

Is this a left/right issue? I don't see it like that at all. Extremists on both left and right limit 'free' speech, surely?

No, I don't think it is a left/right issue, although it does seem that "free speech" is being weaponised by right-wing politics.

Yes, I agree. I was wondering about the 'lefty mob' comment, is all.

I think nanna8 fully understood the British meaning of the term ‘mob’ when she used it in her post.

Doodledog

Yes, I agree. I was wondering about the 'lefty mob' comment, is all.

I noticed it, but decided to ignore it.

I don't really want to hijack the thread (maybe I should start a new one), but when thinking about free speech, I usually think about the right of ordinary people to criticise their government. There are millions of people in the world who live with authoritarian governments and have suffered punishments - including execution - for exercising their right to free speech. Quite honestly , I think it's pathetic that the US has cherry picked a woman who is arguing her right to incite murder as a poster child for free speech.

That's how I see it too, growstuff. I always remember the man in Saudi (I think) who was sentenced to jail with 1000 lashes for writing an article critical of the authorities. He was also refused the right to leave the country after his sentence, and his licence as a journalist was revoked, so he'd struggle to make a living. That case still haunts me.

There is no comparison between his barbaric treatment and imprisoning someone who was inciting others to burn people alive.

If the left spend many years shutting down speech in the way they have with say the gender critical debate then yes of course the right are going to weaponise it. It is slightly more complex than left and right but the left used to be seen as the champions of free speech and I think that has changed.
I vote 'left' so am not sure where I fit into the mob.
I fully supported the exclusion zones around abortion clinics, I honestly don't know how I feel about them now.

Fully agree Doodledog and growstuff.

Those claiming that free speech in the UK is in danger really need to open their eyes and look around the world at countries where free speech actually is prohibited.

We even had a poster on GN (on this thread I believe) making the ridiculous claim that LC is a political prisoner!

Perhaps Trump, Musk and such GN posters should consider the plight of women in Afghanistan and direct their energy towards those poor souls. That’s what deprivation of free speech looks like!

Galaxy

If the left spend many years shutting down speech in the way they have with say the gender critical debate then yes of course the right are going to weaponise it. It is slightly more complex than left and right but the left used to be seen as the champions of free speech and I think that has changed.
I vote 'left' so am not sure where I fit into the mob.
I fully supported the exclusion zones around abortion clinics, I honestly don't know how I feel about them now.

But the Lucy Connolly case has absolutely nothing to do with gender critical issues or even free speech. She incited murder and at least one person was sentenced for following up on her Tweet. Maybe you want to live in a society where that kind of environment is considered normal - I don't.

The case has been weaponised by people like Toby Young and Alisson Pearson for their own agenda.

I am discussing free speech in general, as people seem to be claiming it isn't an issue.
I don't want to live in a society where people are arrested for protest 'in case they do something' - that sounds as terrifying to me.

60+ years ago, in history lessons, discussing the limits of free speech, the example was usually given "You do not have the right to call FIRE in a crowded theatre" (unless there is one!)
I'm surprised this hasn't been quoted more as it seems to fit this case.

And yes, "mob" is used differently in Australian English - oh the minefields! I for instance hate the American English "dumb" but apparently it is quite acceptable over there!

Allira

^There was no evidence that the loss of her child was affecting her 12 years later. Not only that, but she she stated before trial that she would "play the mental health card".^
🤔

Do you honestly not think that, having lost a young child, those memories did not affect her still? Do you not think that, even if latent, those feelings of loss and grief might not be triggered by hearing such horrendous news involving children?

Whether she played the card or not, the loss of a 19 month child will never go away and in my view too would create a particularly strong view about the safety of young children even if she isn’t conscious of that fact.

LizzieDrip

I think nanna8 fully understood the British meaning of the term ‘mob’ when she used it in her post.

I think in Australia that your mob is your tribe or family , it’s an indigenous thing or so I always thought.

Oreo

Allira

There was no evidence that the loss of her child was affecting her 12 years later. Not only that, but she she stated before trial that she would "play the mental health card".
🤔

Do you honestly not think that, having lost a young child, those memories did not affect her still? Do you not think that, even if latent, those feelings of loss and grief might not be triggered by hearing such horrendous news involving children?

Whether she played the card or not, the loss of a 19 month child will never go away and in my view too would create a particularly strong view about the safety of young children even if she isn’t conscious of that fact.

Lucy Connolly entered a guilty plea. The judge considered the loss of her child, but her mental health was not used in her defence. The psychiatric report was apparently not considered helpful to her defence and wasn't used.

In any case, she didn't once express any solidarity with the parents who had lost their own children, which might be considered natural for a mother who had lost her own child. She incited behaviour which could very easily have resulted in other parents losing their own children.

Galaxy

I am discussing free speech in general, as people seem to be claiming it isn't an issue.
I don't want to live in a society where people are arrested for protest 'in case they do something' - that sounds as terrifying to me.

Do you think that people have the right to incite murder? Do you want to live in that kind of environment? Would you be happy to allow a march of (maybe) a milliion people marching through London chanting "death to all Jews/Muslims/gays/old people" (or whatever), even though they would deny that they would do it themselves?