No tax rises

Silverbrooks - Even though we don't need to justify ourselves, this is how we acquired an ex council property.
Back in 1992 my mother-in-law, a long term council tenant bought the flat under the right to buy scheme as she was entitled to do. She stayed there for many years and when she died, my husband and his brother inherited it.
We have really poor pensions, especially my husband and although you are 'offended' the rent did top up our pensions. We were brilliant landlords, we charged below market rent and whenever the tenant needed something doing, we did it immediately.
I find it very offensive to say that renting our property to a well deserving gentleman who would not have any other option but to rent privately, as 'Property Porn"
When we were getting married, we saved really hard to buy our first home, both of us working two jobs, 9-5 at one and 6-10 at another, every day of the week and all weekends. We never went out for a few years and every penny was saved.
I know it is much more difficult these days to 'get on the property ladder' (another supposedly offensive phrase) but some young people have a sense of entitlement, don't want to work or to go without their mobile phones, cars holidays etc.
Lizziedrip, Growstuff and Silverbrooks - I'm pleased to hear that you are not envious of our situation, but you probably have a very nice pension pot which unfortunately we do not

David49

Mollygo

I find the terms ‘property portfolio’ and ‘the property is my pension pot’ offensive.

My niece, now a single mum, who’s been working hard at several jobs to pay her mortgage, but none of her jobs include a decent pension.
So when she inherited a property that she decided to rent out to give her a pension, you think that’s wrong?
If she sold it, the money would soon vanish, disappear in taxes etc.
We sold my parent’s house, rather than rent it out, partly because the money needed to be split.
The person who bought it rents it out. I wish we’d kept it.

Personally would have advised her to pay her own mortgage off as first prority that’s always the safest investment and untaxed unless there is a very good reason why not.

It depends what her mortgage rate is and how much return she is receiving for rents. In today's market it probably makes sense to keep the mortgage because it's probably at a lower rate than the rate of return received in rent.

I wasn’t having a personal pop, Lizzie. Sorry if it came across that way. The expression is in common usage. It's often expressed as the first rung so it does suggest something that needs to be climbed.

It made me think of a young couple I met a few years ago at a local meeting about our Neighbourhood Plan. They were new to the area and had just bought their first home on a smart new development under the Help to Buy Scheme. They seemed rather embarrassed that as FTB, they had been able to buy a brand-new, large, four-bedroomed detached house. I’d been along to look at the development just out of interest and discovered that prices were much higher than for similar established houses, far more than one would expect even taking into account new build premium.

That scheme came under a lot of criticism for pushing up prices:

www.theguardian.com/society/ng-interactive/2024/jun/21/help-to-buy-how-a-disastrous-tory-policy-blew-up-the-housing-market

It was axed in October 2022.

But I suppose the point is that they might still be there if the house they bought met their future needs so no ladder involved.

On a tax related matter this new blog from Tax Justice on the increasing tax gap.

taxjustice.uk/blog/tax-gap-2025-increase-press-release/

sundowngirl. I asked politely May I? You were not obliged to answer.

I shan't address the remainder of your post as it's full of the usual tropes about the behaviour of young people and assumptiions of what other people may or may not have.

growstuff

David49

Mollygo

I find the terms ‘property portfolio’ and ‘the property is my pension pot’ offensive.

My niece, now a single mum, who’s been working hard at several jobs to pay her mortgage, but none of her jobs include a decent pension.
So when she inherited a property that she decided to rent out to give her a pension, you think that’s wrong?
If she sold it, the money would soon vanish, disappear in taxes etc.
We sold my parent’s house, rather than rent it out, partly because the money needed to be split.
The person who bought it rents it out. I wish we’d kept it.

Personally would have advised her to pay her own mortgage off as first prority that’s always the safest investment and untaxed unless there is a very good reason why not.

It depends what her mortgage rate is and how much return she is receiving for rents. In today's market it probably makes sense to keep the mortgage because it's probably at a lower rate than the rate of return received in rent.

Probably not after she pays tax and other expenses. Especially at todays interest rates

No personal ‘offence’ taken Silverbrooks. I know none was meant.

Your comment about the property ladder actually made me reflect on and think differently about the term.

Every day’s a school day

David49
I don’t enquire into her finances, but she said at the time, that the rent would help pay her mortgage. She wasn’t a single mum by choice.

David49 It really does depend on a number of factors. Mortgage rates are still very low in a historical context and rents (even with expenses and tax) can achieve much higher rates than mortgage interest. Not only that, but there will almost certainly be an increase in the value of the property. It depends whether she need to liquidate the asset in the short term.

If she's in any doubt, this is a case where it would be worthwhile seeing a financial adviser, who will go through all the implications.

Mollygo

David49
I don’t enquire into her finances, but she said at the time, that the rent would help pay her mortgage. She wasn’t a single mum by choice.

That's exactly what a friend of mine did. She has a mortgaged flat in an area where she doesn't want to live. She actually lives in a higher value flat in an area which is more convenient for her. She was able to use the income from the first flat (plus her income from work) when she applied for the second mortgage. Incidentally, that's what my ex did multiple times when he was building up his portfolio.

growstuff

David49 It really does depend on a number of factors. Mortgage rates are still very low in a historical context and rents (even with expenses and tax) can achieve much higher rates than mortgage interest. Not only that, but there will almost certainly be an increase in the value of the property. It depends whether she need to liquidate the asset in the short term.

If she's in any doubt, this is a case where it would be worthwhile seeing a financial adviser, who will go through all the implications.

I agree.

Vacant property, inherited property, property owned after moving house - good in a rental portfolio, given decent rates and expenses.

LizzieDrip It made me think about it too such that I indulged in one of my favourite pastimes - looking up things in the OED:

Property ladder

Chiefly British a series of stages by which homeowners are perceived to progress as they are able to afford increasingly expensive properties, the initial stage consisting of buying their first home; cf. housing ladder n.

Worryingly the earliest written example comes from the ^Eugenics Review ^1941

Prestige goes primarily with the ownership of property... Social security, too, depends on climbing the income and property ladder

Here’s one for Philosophers’ Corner. If Eugenics is the scientifically theory that humans can be improved through selective breeding of population, are we being selected according to who can and cannot climb the ladder?

Answers on a postcard.

Here’s housing ladder from 1904 Surveyor & Municipal & County Engineer

Competition would right matters as regards this, the lowest rung of the housing ladder, as in the highest, so that there would always be some slum-dwellers.

Nothing changes.

I do know the rental market pretty well I have a couple of small apartments let, they are pretty basic, suitable for a single or a couple without kids. Over the years they have been a general pain but are on site and can’t be sold off easily, recently they’ve been let to single men who’ve been pretty good.

3 yrs ago we had some spare cash and did look seriously at the Buy to let market and viewed several properties, modern 2/3 bed, having to pay Stamp Duty, Income Tax, CGT plus agents fees on top of mortgage costs put us off. We dropped the idea, interest rate rising since then confirmed it was the right decision, so the cash for deposit we had went into ISAs.

My main business is commercial property, much better, tenants have been really good, they just want to be left to be left alone to do what they do, little regulation, I do external maintenence and occasional refurbishment. If I was younger I would be expanding but at 76 I dont enjoy the hassle as I did 20 yrs ago