Trump sends "Free Speech Squad" to UK.

Crossed posts churchview

I think that we are misunderstanding " free speech" in the USA. It is only free if it supports Mr Trump.
The man himself is talking of sacking anyone working in the finance sector of government whose data does not support Mr Trump's claims about the economy.

But that is nearly everyone's view of free speech.

I do wonder if we shouldn't actually cut the diplomacy schtick (yes, I know - trade deals with the US) and officially tell Trump and his henchmen to keep their noses out of our nation's business...

As Brexiters were keen to point out, we are a sovereign nation and do not welcome other countries interfering in our political and constitutional life. I assume the principle applies even if that country holds views that are similar to those protesting the interference from the EU?

Of course, it doesn't help our case that Labour volunteers entered the US to campaign for the Democrats - even tho' the Labour party neither funded nor organised the trip, and that the US Federal Election Commission allows such campaigns, or that such campaigning is "not unusual"... this is Trump we are dealing with, and that really was a bad move. Volunteers or not, such campaigning was obviously going to be seen as interference.

As to Free Speech - well obviously everyone has the right to be pro or anti abortion, and to say so. But abortion is a medical matter too, and everyone undergoing one has the right to privacy, and the right to not be intimidated or threatened by those opposing it.

There are those who oppose blood transfusions, vaccination - they also insist this is an ethical matter, but we don't allow them to cross the barrier and invade the privacy of the person involved.

I have mixed feelings about abortion, but they are my feelings and unless asked, I wouldn't dream of imposing them on anyone else.

I've been thinking about that too Dickens. Maybe Starmer should start treating Trump the way he treats others.

Wrong to interfere with another country’s politics.
I still think that Obama’s coming to the U.K. to exhort us all to vote Remain, was very misguided. I dare say many who were going to vote remain anyway, thought he should have minded his own business.

And as for Labour (so I gather) sending a team across the pond to tell the Yanks not to vote for Trump, IMO it would have served them right if they’d been pelted with ordure.

How do you feel about Farage and Co going across the pond to tell the Yanks to vote for Trump?

I am not sure I really understand the meaning of freedom of speech. Does it only apply to people who share your opinions?

Can you really say anything you like, however disgusting, threatening, racist or sexist it is?

Should liberalism and wide cultural awareness be stamped out in universities in the name of freedom of speech?

Should certain books be banned or even burned?

Is writing on a public forum that it would be a good idea to set fire to hostels containing live people acceptable?

To say I am confused is an understatement.

Maremia

How do you feel about Farage and Co going across the pond to tell the Yanks to vote for Trump?

Same principle applies.

The Labour volunteers, Farage & Co, may all be acting within the legal constraints - but, it just doesn't sit well with voters I don't think.

The Left is very much under fire at the moment, and certainly Starmer's LP is since winning the election. They need to be on the ball and not have these blind spots which can be exploited by the RW media. I understand the reason why the volunteers went over to the USA - and it has been done before so this wasn't a precedent... but I don't think it was very savvy.

As for Farage - well he's a Law unto himself. But I do wonder if the voters in Clacton, and especially those in Jaywick, might prefer he spends more time in his constituency - this 'man of the people'. Or maybe they are cheering him on, or don't care either way - who knows?

This investigation team isn't to do with an election visit, however, or even a group from the USA informally visiting abortion campaigners (which undoubtedly happens, since the campaign to challenge and break the boundary rules is US connected already:

Its an official delegation from a government trying to interfere with our laws, our boundaries.

Magenta8

I am not sure I really understand the meaning of freedom of speech. Does it only apply to people who share your opinions?

Can you really say anything you like, however disgusting, threatening, racist or sexist it is?

Should liberalism and wide cultural awareness be stamped out in universities in the name of freedom of speech?

Should certain books be banned or even burned?

Is writing on a public forum that it would be a good idea to set fire to hostels containing live people acceptable?

To say I am confused is an understatement.

It’s not confusing really.

With freedom comes great responsibility, so freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom itself, all has to be done within the law.

Trump is the man who will not allow the return of a wrongfully arrested and deported US citizen from the worst prison in San Salvador(?), who is evicting all foreign students from US universities because they might beChinese spies.

Wyllow3

This investigation team isn't to do with an election visit, however, or even a group from the USA informally visiting abortion campaigners (which undoubtedly happens, since the campaign to challenge and break the boundary rules is US connected already:

Its an official delegation from a government trying to interfere with our laws, our boundaries.

Its an official delegation from a government trying to interfere with our laws, our boundaries.

I wonder how Trump's administration would re-act if we sent a similar government delegation to the US to challenge their abortion laws relating to 'free speech'?

Would they even get past Passport control?

Perhaps we should turn the delegation away on arrival on the basis that they are challenging our Law and are therefore liable to incite unrest, or even violence?

The sheer arrogance of Trump and his administration is stunning! I'm sure Vance and Musk have had a hand in it...

population needs to go down not higher

I think I sniff Vance behind it. Here's a more easy to read article on it

www.christiantoday.com/news/trump-state-department-staff-meet-with-uk-pro-lifers-arrested-for-silent-prayer

I think you are right. Vance is a malign influence.

"During a podcast interview in January 2022, then-Senate candidate JD Vance said he “certainly would like abortion to be illegal nationally,” described himself as “100 percent pro-life”, and was “sympathetic” to the view that a national ban was necessary to stop people from traveling across states to access an abortion.

lets face it, this is what its all about. Dressed up as a major"free speech" (as per befits a person wanting to abolish Habeas Corpus) dressed up as "they were only praying", dressed up as a fact finding mission (when the US anti abortion groups are active in the UK and the facts are known)

its the misogynist USA hardliners trying to intervene in our own abortion laws, hard fraught for by women, after centuries of death and injury and shame by back street abortion

AGAA4

Interfering in another country's laws and regulations is appalling. Trump needs to sort out the messes in the USA before telling the UK how to behave.
The safety of women obviously means nothing to these people. If they want to put their own women's lives in danger that's up to them but how dare they come here to do the same.

Interfering in another country's laws and regulations is a constant - since the beginning of nations, thousands of years ago. Thats how the Mans World spins.

Interfering with a woman's care of her own body, medical choices and reproductive rights is appalling regardless of her location on the planet IMO.

AGAA4

I think you are right. Vance is a malign influence.

Vance is a malign influence.

In one respect, he is more dangerous than Trump, I believe. He is articulate - able to string a sentence together, and (my guess) probably ambitious. And vengeful in a particularly spiteful way - the way he addressed Zelensky, the derisory comments he's made about Europe and Britain, indicate he's a nasty piece of work.

... and his obsession with 'free-speech' is laughable - he must know surely that no-one is telling pro-life campaigners that they can't pray or say what they think... just not in the faces of those women going into clinics.

These right-wing Christian nationalists, spouting about the sanctity of a foetus - in a country that has significant and persistent child poverty, at a higher rate compared to other nations; who would even insist that girls little more than children themselves as victims of incest carry a pregnancy to term... IMO are more about establishing the male hierarchy over women by removing their ability to control their own fertility (Musk proposing via social media to impregnate various women FGS!).

I wish I would live long enough to see the names of Trump, Vance and Musk - and that individual whose name I've forgotten who has said that women should NOT go into higher education but focus on having babies instead - disappear into the annals of history. Alas, at 83, I won't.

Trump's administration takes issue with people reading The Handmaid's Tale, along with many other books (The Color Purple, The Kite Runner, If Beale Street Could Talk, etc, etc, etc. So many books have been removed from schools and public libraries - so much for "free speech". This man is stupid and dangerous - and he should restrict his hate-filled ravings to his own country and leave us alone.

I believe women have the right to make decisions about their own bodies. Some disagree but I don't believe they have the right to impose their beliefs on others.

He is also making it his business to question the Lucy Connolly case.

Maremia

I think, quite honestly, that Trump has dementia. So many signs. He can't finish sentences. Falls asleep in important and televised meetings. Uses 'substitute' words. There is one video where he is handing out awards, but can't open what looks like a simple lift the lid jewellery box. Has to be prompted about what he is signing. Keeps saying 'I don't know about that'.

Hmmm, signs of dementia or outright lunacy - eternal rambling, breaking off sentences and not finishing, looking here, there and everywhere and bizarre physical gesturing as if he's playing an imaginary concertina.

Then throw in his profound and unshakeable belief that any criticism of himself is "Fake news! Fake news!" and it becomes plain that a dictatorial fruitcake is treating the world as his personal fiefdom.

Okay, he doesn't smoke or drink alcohol, but he is 78, only exercise is golf, he is overweight, eats a poor, over processed diet, seems to always be angry, which could give him high blood pressure.
They were quick on the mark with his diagnosis of 'bone spurs' but are ignoring his dementia, possibly because they will lose all that power and money if he is removed from office.

If Trump does have to go on health issues then Vance will step up. I believe he already has a great deal of influence over Trump.
Vance in charge would be even worse than Trump.
He overstepped his position in the Zelensky interview by attacking him. Vice presidents would never do this unless asked to by the president.

Vance is vile, but the MAGA folk, a very powerful consideration, do not adore him.