Song about Gaza

escaped

Whilst I agree that all so-called composers can respond to a tragedy by producing some musical scores, this Gaza offering by the amateurish Marsh family certainly doesn't feel anywhere near as moving and heart-felt for me as for example John Rutter's A Prayer for Ukraine. It takes a renowned, talented composer to come up with something that will endure longer than a few short months. The words are OK, but the musical composition is hardly comparable.

Which is exactly the sort of response the war poets got from select areas of society when they were published.

No comparison between the language of the war poets and the
Marsh family ,

but I want to try to focus on what can be done
I do understand what you are saying, Wyllow3, and I have never said I hate the Marsh family. I have no doubt that their song will be listened to by many, but is that enough?

On the other hand, DH sings the Prayer for Ukraine at choral events where every time the collections for Ukraine reach £1000 upwards. Due to its stunning musicality the piece is played and sung by choirs all over the world. It really is "doing something" tangible because it is on a different level and without sounding snobby, it will probably encourage far far more donations than a recording in someone's English living room will.
Personally I don't think the Marsh family's lyrics will stand the test of time like those of the famous war poets mentioned above. But who knows? (None of us will be around to see.)

I guess in the long run everyone tries to do what they can in a way they feel best.

I'd genuinely rather discuss, "what can we do".

There is of course so much to discuss on the ongoing Gaza thread, but given the crisis I thought it might be god to focus.

any other ideas what we can do, who to approach, what we should ask of our government and so on would be glad to har as I want to try to do what I can.

People do what they can be it wars or natural disasters, I don’t
think that song will cause people to want to do what they can,
news media, press etc every day since early 2034 , impossible
not to be aware

It's just that trying is better than not, Annie. That song will "speak" to some people and not to others. that is natural.

It being Sunday and me a Quaker, I offer this:

“A 19-year-old survivor of the attack by Hamas on Kibbutz Be’eri who was evacuated to the Dead Sea after the attack.
After speaking of her loss of people she has known all her life, she offered up this plea:

“How am I supposed to wake up every morning and know that 4.5km away from my home in Kibbutz Be’eri in Gaza there are people for whom this is not over? For me this is ended after 12 hours. I’m here at the Dead Sea.
Yes we are in a lot of pain that is true. And after everything I just went through, I feel depleted every time I hear the word revenge.

What I went through and to know there are people going through it in Gaza and there’s no-one to rescue them? We cannot go on like this...

They keep asking “Do you think you’ll go back to the Kibbutz after all you’ve been through without additional soldiers and protection.” Don’t tell me about soldiers and protection. Tell me about a political solution. For years we have been asking for a political solution

We pray for the people of Israel, Gaza and the West Bank. We long for peace and for an end to violence and destruction of every kind. We unite our hearts with all who are suffering, with those who have lost loved ones, and with all who cry out in anguish”

From an Interfaith meeting in London.

Anniebach

No comparison between the language of the war poets and the
Marsh family ,

No one ...

Said ...

There was.

The comparison was in the reaction from areas of society at the time of publication.

I'm not sure how to make that any clearer.

Correlation is not causation escaped.

Just as an example, the level of the collection could just as easily be correlated to the disposable income of those in the audience of the "choral event" as to the music played. We already know they can afford the event. How many of those browsing the Internet to fill their time have equal or or more to dispose of at will.

I'm not at all sure your argument hangs together.

I'm not sure I was looking for an argument. Read my last sentence.
What I wrote was just an observation.
Anyway, as you were. It's a bank holiday weekend here in France, blue skies and I have a lot of tasting to be getting on with now. 🍷🍷

PoliticsNerd

Correlation is not causation escaped.

Just as an example, the level of the collection could just as easily be correlated to the disposable income of those in the audience of the "choral event" as to the music played. We already know they can afford the event. How many of those browsing the Internet to fill their time have equal or or more to dispose of at will.

I'm not at all sure your argument hangs together.

Gentle question?

How is this helping the people in the region be peaceful when we struggle ourselves?

If we do nothing, if we say nothing, and bearing in mind, it's not as if we live, well most of us, in a police state just now, so no jeopardy in speaking out, are we complicit?

Brought to mind ‘It’s The Singer Not The Song’ ,

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0r1xl5wgnko

Jeremy Bowen In Depth on the BBC. This is not emotional like the song but discusses the current situation. I’m appalled by the actions of Netanyahu and his cronies in the continuing bombardment of Gaza. I’m relieved to see that finally Canada, UK and France are moving away from supporting the regime.

Jeremy Bowen singing ?

ayse

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0r1xl5wgnko

Jeremy Bowen In Depth on the BBC. This is not emotional like the song but discusses the current situation. I’m appalled by the actions of Netanyahu and his cronies in the continuing bombardment of Gaza. I’m relieved to see that finally Canada, UK and France are moving away from supporting the regime.

It encapsulates everything we have talked about over the past months.

At last the world recognises that genocide through violence and starvation is taking place.

Whether anything is to be done - well - I for one have yet to be convinced.

Whitewavemark2

ayse

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0r1xl5wgnko

Jeremy Bowen In Depth on the BBC. This is not emotional like the song but discusses the current situation. I’m appalled by the actions of Netanyahu and his cronies in the continuing bombardment of Gaza. I’m relieved to see that finally Canada, UK and France are moving away from supporting the regime.

It encapsulates everything we have talked about over the past months.

At last the world recognises that genocide through violence and starvation is taking place.

Whether anything is to be done - well - I for one have yet to be convinced.

I also forgot yo mention I appreciated your post escaped a little upthread. Your emotion of the singing for Ukraine, and you are right "I guess in the long run everyone tries to do what they can in a way they feel best"

Ayse that Jeremy Bowen article is one of the best summaries of overall issues for a while, though it certainly takes some reading.

The "suggestions for a letter" I copied in did make specific suggestions about that the UK can do, what we can do is another issue as individuals.

it said

"The UK has a special responsibility - as a permanent member of the UN Security Council, former colonial power
 in the region, and the world’s second-largest arms exporter -

including at least half a billion in export licences to Israel over the past decade.



It is thought that around 15% of the value of each of Israel’s F-35 combat aircraft is produced in the UK.



The aircraft are being heavily used in Israel’s bombing campaign on Gaza.



As my MP, I am asking you to do whatever you can to show your support for the people of Gaza and to urge the UK Government to help end the violence by taking action to save lives and secure an immediate and permanent ceasefire.



I urge you to:



● Support the motion for an immediate and permanent ceasefire - to benefit everyone in Israel and Palestine, facilitate the provision of adequate humanitarian assistance and the release of hostages, and curtail the risk of regional conflict.



● Call for the suspension of all arms export licences to Israel and any other forms of military support with immediate effect.



● Call for the UK to ensure Israel fully implements the International Court of Justice orders."

It does have to be done in ways that try to reduce possibilities of a reaction against UK citizens whose religion is involved in the conflict too.

escaped

I'm not sure I was looking for an argument. Read my last sentence.
What I wrote was just an observation.
Anyway, as you were. It's a bank holiday weekend here in France, blue skies and I have a lot of tasting to be getting on with now. 🍷🍷

1. An exchange of diverging or opposite views, typically a heated or angry one.

2. A reason or set of reasons given in support of an idea, action or theory.

I was, of course, using the second meaning. Your "argument" was used to support the position you took, your "observation". But then, I'm sure you knew that.

Anniebach

Jeremy Bowen singing ?

Please Annie- this is NOT funny!

Well - it just deliberately or otherwise leads off the point of the suffering and what can be done. As do some arguments about word definitions

How do these help? except to sometimes disrupt a recognition of the scale of the suffering?

Possibly, but I may be wrong, in this discussion the importance lies in, can we find empathy with the Song? With the shocking situation in Gaza? It is after all a 'News and Politics' genre not 'Musical Appreciation'.
That's what I meant AnnieB by saying, perhaps it's the Song not the Singer.
Of course we can all do something to help. How long have we spent tip-tapping our thoughts onto this thread?
Long enough to compose an email to a politician. If we have the will to try. And if we feel it is worth making an effort on behalf of those children.

I'm definitely in favour of cutting all military aid.

How far we go down the road of other cutting help to Israel, I need someone with a more detailed knowledge of what those are. Certainly sending a trade delegation there seemed dodgy to me if not bizarre but OTOH we don.t know what was discussed.

I'd like to see us more active in the International Courts in actions against the regime unless aid is delivered and in a way that meets peoples needs not whats on offer from the US outfit. What we can do is raise this with as many friends as we now, get them to write too, take part (if its your thing) in interfaith meetings in your locality, also
simply also talk to people we encounter. Because people feel overwhelmed so fall not 'there is no point"

Maremia

Possibly, but I may be wrong, in this discussion the importance lies in, can we find empathy with the Song? With the shocking situation in Gaza? It is after all a 'News and Politics' genre not 'Musical Appreciation'.
That's what I meant AnnieB by saying, perhaps it's the Song not the Singer.
Of course we can all do something to help. How long have we spent tip-tapping our thoughts onto this thread?
Long enough to compose an email to a politician. If we have the will to try. And if we feel it is worth making an effort on behalf of those children.

This is very much what I took the OP to be about Maremia There was no mention of what we might chose to do to help. It's totally reasonable if a few want to digress into that but I can't see why we should be ordered to do so.

It's how we react, isn't it? I took it as a "Call to Do something"it moved me to want to find ways.

Maremis also said in the quote you posted, "Long enough to compose an email to a politician. If we have the will to try. And if we feel it is worth making an effort on behalf of those children".

...enough of disputing definition after a certain point - instead of saying well a the level of humanitarian desperation - what is is most important.

I thought the song was absolutely awful but then the situation is also awful. Lorries ? Haven’t heard that for years and years. This is the first time I have come across this group and it will be the last.

Wyllow3

I'm definitely in favour of cutting all military aid.

How far we go down the road of other cutting help to Israel, I need someone with a more detailed knowledge of what those are. Certainly sending a trade delegation there seemed dodgy to me if not bizarre but OTOH we don.t know what was discussed.

I'd like to see us more active in the International Courts in actions against the regime unless aid is delivered and in a way that meets peoples needs not whats on offer from the US outfit. What we can do is raise this with as many friends as we now, get them to write too, take part (if its your thing) in interfaith meetings in your locality, also
simply also talk to people we encounter. Because people feel overwhelmed so fall not 'there is no point"

I'm genuinely interested in knowing what posters think of these suggestions, because I dont know the practicalities of this or that ban. Deciding what to campaign on is part of knowing what to write to whom I'd welcome feedback.