Madeleine McCann

I simply cannot believe anyone thinks the McCanns are involved in their daughters disappearance in some criminal or violent way. It is a monstrous thought. I feel a lot of compassion towards them. We have all been less than perfect parents at times.

Another one agreeing with dragonfly. It's no use blaming the parents. They and their friends set up a checking system which they thought was adequate but it wasn't. We all know better now.

I am sure Madeleine McCann’s parents would never,ever leave their children unsupervised again. A hard lesson and there is no point in slamming them, I just feel sad for them.

I don’t think that questioning the narrative that she was abducted is a conspiracy theory. Who would be conspiring with whom, and why?

I hope that CB is never released, as he is a dangerous man who should be locked up for life; but there is no evidence (AFAIK) that he was involved in the MM case. I hope, for Madeleine’s sake, that he wasn’t.

I don’t think it was the norm in 2007 to leave babies and toddlers alone when parents were out drinking. My children were 90s babies and nobody I knew would have dreamt of doing that. Also, the bar was not a similar distance to the bottom of the garden (unless you live in somewhere like Downton Abbey). It did not have a view of the apartment and was a five minute walk from the window (further to the door if anyone had planned to go in and look at the children).

The families had been at a different bar on the previous night (twice as far away) until after midnight and Madeleine (by her mother’s admission and evidenced by witnesses) had cried for her for over an hour when she woke and found herself alone. Would you go out (particularly when there was a crèche and a babysitting service on tap) knowing that your three year old had cried for hours the night before?

I can’t justify any of that, but agree that child neglect is not the same as murder, and that a lifetime of guilt is a huge cross to bear if neglect is ‘all’ they are guilty of.

I don’t think they did kill her, but I do think that there are questions to be asked about the timeline and the truth about the supposed checks on the various children of the group in the bar.

Obviously there would be reputation damage (at minimum) for all of the people in their group if they were found guilty of neglect leading to death of a small child, so there was a definite incentive to cover their tracks. Staff at the various bars have said that regular checks were not made.

The fund set up for MM and other missing children has not, as far as I know, paid out a penny to anyone else.

I don’t claim to know what happened (how could I?) and am not interested in persecuting anyone, but I do think that there should be a proper investigation that is not centred on the assumption that Madeleine was abducted. If a body is ever found I think that might happen, but I suspect that that no body will be found.

There is a lot of interest in the case - partly because of the huge sums of money and the amount of high-powered support for the case, and partly because the parents’ account of what happened just doesn’t add up. The Portuguese policeman initially in charge of the case was removed when he suggested that the parents may have sedated the children which led to Madeleine’s death. Trained dogs found both cadaverine (basically the scent of death) and blood traces in the apartment and in a car the McCanns hired long after Madeleine was declared missing. The window of the apartment was closed, not jemmied open as KM claimed - there was no evidence of a break-in at all. The parents refused to allow blood samples to be taken from the twins to check whether the children had been sedated by the abductor until months afterwards when many substances would have left no traces - why?

I don’t know- it was all a long time ago now, but one way or another that little girl lost her life, and I believe she has a right to justice. If the parents are guilty of nothing beyond neglect they would, presumably, be pleased to be exonerated- so why do they use the fund to prosecute anyone who suggests they might have been involved? In their shoes I think I would be delighted to give as much information as I could in the hope that my daughter’s abductor could be found.

I wouldn’t dream of leaving young children in a chalet, especially two toddlers on their own- they would be with us. That restaurant wasn’t that near.
Hundreds of kids go missing every year, I don’t understand all the attention this case is receiving.
I doubt we will ever know the reason why she went missing.

I wonder how the events would have been perceived if it had been a young single mum, living in a council flat, who had left her three little children alone while she went drinking in the pub across the road? 🤔

That just doesn't bear thinking about LizzieDrip.

One big difference would be that the scene would have been sealed and our police would have been more professional and efficient.....one hopes.

LizzieDrip

Well exactly.

I think ( some) people seem to think leaving children alone at night is ok when they’re away. - as if nothing can possibly go wrong on a lovely sunny holiday.

An excellent assessment of the case Doodledog.
I share many of your concerns.

LizzieDrip I think you have raised a good point but hopefully 18 years on even those who would, no doubt, be very censorious, would have stopped blaming the unfortunate mother.

Kandinsky I still feel sick when I think of a mistake I made 40 years ago which could have gone horribly wrong on a lovely sunny holiday. I hope had it gone wrong I would be forgiven by now although I would never have forgiven myself.

Franski

Please let this thread not be a new retrashing of the McCanns. This family have been through enough hell. They loved their little girl more than any of us who didnt even know her. I can put up my hands and say I made many mistakes in bringing up mine. Partly through naivety and a lot through carelessness. There but got the grace of God... I can only feel compassion for this family. The only person deserving of disdain and condemnation is the one who stole her from her bed on a happy family holiday.

Well said, Franski.

Franski

Please let this thread not be a new retrashing of the McCanns. This family have been through enough hell. They loved their little girl more than any of us who didnt even know her. I can put up my hands and say I made many mistakes in bringing up mine. Partly through naivety and a lot through carelessness. There but got the grace of God... I can only feel compassion for this family. The only person deserving of disdain and condemnation is the one who stole her from her bed on a happy family holiday.

Hear, Hear.

Franski, you took the words right out of my mouth.

I don't understand the cruelty of people who still persist in blaming the parents in this awful case.

Witzend

Franski

Please let this thread not be a new retrashing of the McCanns. This family have been through enough hell. They loved their little girl more than any of us who didnt even know her. I can put up my hands and say I made many mistakes in bringing up mine. Partly through naivety and a lot through carelessness. There but got the grace of God... I can only feel compassion for this family. The only person deserving of disdain and condemnation is the one who stole her from her bed on a happy family holiday.

Well said, Franski.

I should have added, which of us can honestly say we’ve not had heart-stopping moments - when, thank goodness, all was finally well?

I will never forget several panic-stricken minutes when my human-hurricane little blond grandson of 4 had apparently vanished in a large and very busy, crowded playground/water-play park, on a very hot day - when I was also watching Gdd 5.

I was frantically yelling his name for what seemed forever - until someone I didn’t know said, ‘Is that him, over there?
🙏🙏🙏

I feel uncomfortable about some of the insinuations being made in this thread. Whatever your thoughts on the parenting of the children at the time, let’s not forget that the McCanns have been to hell and back in all likelihood, and this latest investigation will, no doubt, rip open wounds again.

It seems to me that there’s a lot of guesswork and speculation being spouted, but the fact is, none of us were there, so none of us are in a position to say exactly what happened and exactly who was responsible.

The McCanns made a very bad decision that evening, one that I suspect many wouldn’t make, and will have to carry that with them to the grave. I think a degree of compassion wouldn’t go amiss.

mumofmadboys

I simply cannot believe anyone thinks the McCanns are involved in their daughters disappearance in some criminal or violent way. It is a monstrous thought. I feel a lot of compassion towards them. We have all been less than perfect parents at times.

I agree with this. I made mistakes bringing up my children, most parents have.

foxie48

LizzieDrip I think you have raised a good point but hopefully 18 years on even those who would, no doubt, be very censorious, would have stopped blaming the unfortunate mother.

I wonder if that unfortunate mother would have had her two remaining children taken away from her? Would society deem she deserved to be ‘punished’ for her mistake?

I’m not suggesting, for one minute, that should have happened to the McCann’s. Their pain is unimaginable.

But I do think there would be a fair bit of ‘double standard’ regarding the behaviour of a middle class couple of doctors and that of a young single mum on benefits.

One person’s ‘mistake’ might be viewed as another person’s ’negligence’.

It’s all conjecture; who knows

JenniferEccles

An excellent assessment of the case Doodledog.
I share many of your concerns.

Me, too. I've always felt there's a strong smell of fish about the events as they are alleged to have happened.

Those parents made an horrendous error of judgement and will live forever with the guilt.
If they had been behind her disappearance, they would not have kept the publicity going, or spent all that time, money and effort in finding her.

It's easy now to say you wouldn't dream of leaving sleeping babies and children alone but who knows what that situation was like. The group of parents , taking it in turns to check, always feeling safe because nothing had happened to cause anxiety before.

In the 1970s when my 3 boys were born and we lived in a terraced house, neighbours would drop in for a chat and a drink leaving the baby monitor to babysit.

We also left prams outside shops, even a department store on one occasion when I was halfway up the street before remembering the baby!

We were so lucky. The McCanns were not.

always feeling safe because nothing had happened to cause anxiety before

Mm? Even though, apparently, Madeline had previously ‘cried for hours’ and had said there was ‘someone in the room’ on the previous night?

It's all so terribly sad and I wonder if we will ever know what really happened that night.

I had some sympathy for the M'Cann's but not when I read some excepts from her book. Very odd comments from a mother. There is something not right about how they behaved at the time.

LizzieDrip

^always feeling safe because nothing had happened to cause anxiety before^

Mm? Even though, apparently, Madeline had previously ‘cried for hours’ and had said there was ‘someone in the room’ on the previous night?

Well exactly. Surely if you knew your child had been upset on a previous evening, you wouldn't leave them alone again?

Where did that story come from that she'd cried for hours and a man had been in her room?
I have only seen it here today and I find it very hard to believe.

The only thought that floated through my mind with the whole sad affair is the role of alcohol in all this.

Which of course, clouds judgement.