Madeleine McCann

The suspect CB has boasted that they will never find Madeleine and then, alledgedly, recounted why. The details are so horrific I cannot repeat them; the stuff of horror.
The bile against the parents suggests a middle-class prejudice, whereas children are constantly left unattended on camp and caravan sites, and if anything is to blame perhaps it is the British culture of putting kids to bed at 7 whereas Continentals have their children out at 10 at night. The Portuguese police would not understand this, hence all the silly tales about the parents.

Allsorts

Have none of you had children that you put to bed and family and friends are there, with patio doors open you sit just outside on the patio, that is the distance I believe those parents were from their children, in sight. They made a mistake, they were good loving parents, how that guilt must have racked them, they were both doctors and helped people.. A paedophile targeted them, a random premeditated crime. I feel nothing but compassion, has no one never made a mistake?Holding your child's hand in a crowd and they wriggle free, Lost sight of one for an instant. I didn't leave mine, we were lucky if we got a week in a caravan in Wales, whilst there numerous families put their children to bed and sat outside chatting, not us we were as tired as the children after a day out.
They were probably the same distance away as the McCanns.

There are plans of the complex online. The parents were neither within sight nor sound of their accommodation.

Grammaretto

Where did that story come from that she'd cried for hours and a man had been in her room?
I have only seen it here today and I find it very hard to believe.

Her own mother said it in one of the documentaries about the case. and it was also in her witness statement. She said Madeleine told her that both she and her little brother had been crying for their mum.

Grammaretto

Where did that story come from that she'd cried for hours and a man had been in her room?
I have only seen it here today and I find it very hard to believe.

There are several documentaries quoting police sources and witness statements which mention it. A six-part one on Netflix, one on YouTube by an FBI statement analyst and others.

I have been to Pria de Luz the tapas restaurant is not in sight of the holiday apartment.

It is important to remember when the McCanns and their friends reported a child missing from their apartment, in the crucial first few hours of the case the Police had no idea the parents were absent.

This information came to light some hours after.

Madeleine had asked her mother the morning she went missing why she hadn’t come to her when she was crying in the night and still Kate McCann went out that evening and left her children.

When Kate McCann admitted this in a TV documentary I was stunned.

It is the saddest story, I know the McCanns would do anything to turn back time, I always hope this tragic story has made parents think twice about ever leaving their child.

On Netflix ? As was The Crown , lies which I know of

Anniebach

On Netflix ? As was The Crown , lies which I know of

The Crown is a historical drama and never pretended to be factual. There have been several documentaries about the McCann case, not only on Netflix but also on ITV, Channel 4 etc.

From ABC news, 2008:

“In mid-April this year, as the McCanns campaigned for a European Amber Alert system, sealed statements the couple made to Portuguese police about Madeleine's cries the night before became public.

According to the leaked statements, on the morning of their last day together, Madeleine asked her mother, "Mummy, why didn't you come when we were crying last night?"

"It was sort of fairly early in the morning, she just very casually really said, 'Where were you last night when me and Sean cried?' and we immediately looked and said, 'When was this Madeleine, was this when you were going to sleep?'" said Kate McCann.

"We obviously told the police because we thought, does this indicate that someone has been round the night before and that's what has woken her up?" she said. "Which is significant you know … I've persecuted myself over and over again about that statement because you think, why didn't they [the police] kind of just hold it and say, 'What do you mean?'"

Madeleine didn't answer her parents' question and "carried on playing, whatever she was doing, totally undistressed," Kate McCann said.

The McCanns say that because Madeleine didn't make a big deal about the issue that they let the matter go. But they say they consciously decided that evening to be more vigilant about checking in on the children”

… yet they still went out leaving the children alone!

Doodledog

I don’t think that questioning the narrative that she was abducted is a conspiracy theory. Who would be conspiring with whom, and why?

I hope that CB is never released, as he is a dangerous man who should be locked up for life; but there is no evidence (AFAIK) that he was involved in the MM case. I hope, for Madeleine’s sake, that he wasn’t.

I don’t think it was the norm in 2007 to leave babies and toddlers alone when parents were out drinking. My children were 90s babies and nobody I knew would have dreamt of doing that. Also, the bar was not a similar distance to the bottom of the garden (unless you live in somewhere like Downton Abbey). It did not have a view of the apartment and was a five minute walk from the window (further to the door if anyone had planned to go in and look at the children).

The families had been at a different bar on the previous night (twice as far away) until after midnight and Madeleine (by her mother’s admission and evidenced by witnesses) had cried for her for over an hour when she woke and found herself alone. Would you go out (particularly when there was a crèche and a babysitting service on tap) knowing that your three year old had cried for hours the night before?

I can’t justify any of that, but agree that child neglect is not the same as murder, and that a lifetime of guilt is a huge cross to bear if neglect is ‘all’ they are guilty of.

I don’t think they did kill her, but I do think that there are questions to be asked about the timeline and the truth about the supposed checks on the various children of the group in the bar.

Obviously there would be reputation damage (at minimum) for all of the people in their group if they were found guilty of neglect leading to death of a small child, so there was a definite incentive to cover their tracks. Staff at the various bars have said that regular checks were not made.

The fund set up for MM and other missing children has not, as far as I know, paid out a penny to anyone else.

I don’t claim to know what happened (how could I?) and am not interested in persecuting anyone, but I do think that there should be a proper investigation that is not centred on the assumption that Madeleine was abducted. If a body is ever found I think that might happen, but I suspect that that no body will be found.

There is a lot of interest in the case - partly because of the huge sums of money and the amount of high-powered support for the case, and partly because the parents’ account of what happened just doesn’t add up. The Portuguese policeman initially in charge of the case was removed when he suggested that the parents may have sedated the children which led to Madeleine’s death. Trained dogs found both cadaverine (basically the scent of death) and blood traces in the apartment and in a car the McCanns hired long after Madeleine was declared missing. The window of the apartment was closed, not jemmied open as KM claimed - there was no evidence of a break-in at all. The parents refused to allow blood samples to be taken from the twins to check whether the children had been sedated by the abductor until months afterwards when many substances would have left no traces - why?

I don’t know- it was all a long time ago now, but one way or another that little girl lost her life, and I believe she has a right to justice. If the parents are guilty of nothing beyond neglect they would, presumably, be pleased to be exonerated- so why do they use the fund to prosecute anyone who suggests they might have been involved? In their shoes I think I would be delighted to give as much information as I could in the hope that my daughter’s abductor could be found.

Absolutely 100%
If anyone of a lesser class had left their children, they would have been charged with negligence I bet. Not saying they had any involvement, btw.

Anniebach

On Netflix ? As was The Crown , lies which I know of

Are you suggesting that because you didn't like The Crown (which was a drama, not a documentary) that means that everything on Netflix must be suspect?

KM is on film saying that Madeleine was crying for her the night before. It doesn't matter which channel screened it - in fact the Netflix documentary pulls together film and sources from various channels.

It is a very sad story, whatever happened, and I stress that I am not suggesting that the parents killed Madeleine. I just think that there are many unanswered questions about that night.

BBC showed a documentary earlier this year, followed by withdrawal of the documentary and apologies.

Trouble with witnesses some will lie to get attention

I recall being very shocked to find out these parents had left their children alone to go and drink with friends. Yes, they were incredibly neglectful and paid a heavy price for their folly.
I suspect there are still parents out there like them, but in the end that little girl suffered in way she didn't deserve and she is where my sympathies lie...shows that some people care more about themselves than they do their children. No one seems to care about them anymore.

Those who say that it is cruel to question the parents' statements are basing that on their own feelings, not on the evidence.

I'm sure all of us did things we would do differently if we had our time again - we live and learn. I am not saying that leaving the children alone means that the McCanns deserved what happened. Not for a minute.

What I am saying is that the statements they made afterwards don't add up. Not the same thing at all.

Did the parents join friends for supper or only for drinks ?

Anniebach

Did the parents join friends for supper or only for drinks ?

They dined out with their friends every night, according to their own witness statements, and Kate McCann herself said that Madeleine told her how both she and her little brother Sean had been crying for their mum the previous night.

It's absolultely bizarre behaviour really. They must have felt they were entitled to this lifestyle somehow.

Thank you , i thought at the time I read supper , I didn’t really
follow it, too distressing

I agree with Boz. Local police, accustomed to taking their children out with them in the evening, found the behaviours of this group of adults incomprehensible, so were inclined to draw certain conclusions, which led to some things being overlooked.
I don't know Portugal, but soon after this unfolded, was visiting friends who live in Spain. Their neighbours and friends in Southern Spain were very critical of the parents.
I fear that this somewhat blinkered view led to potential avenues being unexplored

Whatever is said about the lack of judgement or common sense shown by the parents - and please remember there were 2 parents, don't keep saying "Kate this and Kate that". They paid the ultimate price.
Poor, poor souls.

ViceVersa

Whatever happened to Madeleine, what saddens me most is the fact that children go missing all the time yet their cases do not attract a fraction of the attention or money spent on them as this case has. Are they any less important?
And yes, I'm sure we've all made mistakes as parents, but I can honestly say that I never left mine alone on holiday, nor do I know anyone else who would do the same.

I so agree, ViveVersa. Not only that but if my child told E a man had been in their room, there’s no way I would have left them again the next night. Not that I ever left my children alone, not ever and I can’t understand anyone who would. Forgetting the kidnap side, what if the child vomited, was feeling poorly and no-one was there to comfort and care for them? Poor little children.
Obviously the McCanns didn’t deserve what happened, no-one in the world deserves that, but I resent them for being uncaring enough that it could and did happen.

It was and still isn't normal to leave young children home alone and go out for the night. I have no sympathy for the McCanns just heartbreak for Madeleine. It still staggers me that they were not prosecuted for child neglect and were allowed to keep the twins. A single mum from a council estate would have been treated less favourably.

Told me, not told E. Sorry

I’ve never known quite what to think about this if I am honest. It’s not something we would have done, but they have paid a high price. There have been many other cases over the years that have not had such a high profile. It’s a very sad situation.

ViceVersa

Whatever happened to Madeleine, what saddens me most is the fact that children go missing all the time yet their cases do not attract a fraction of the attention or money spent on them as this case has. Are they any less important?
And yes, I'm sure we've all made mistakes as parents, but I can honestly say that I never left mine alone on holiday, nor do I know anyone else who would do the same.

While the whole case is horrific, I do agree with your comment about other cases which just seem to be pushed to one side...surely every child that goes missing is entitled to the same efforts to find them or find out what happened to them, if at all possible!
The Ben Needham and Katrice Lee cases immediately spring to mind.

I brought two boys up mostly on my own and although I'm sure I made mistakes - I never left either or both alone, it wouldn't have crossed my mind.

The story about Madeleine asking her mother where she was the previous evening as she had been crying was in Kate McCann’s book. It’s not hearsay, speculation or gossip but was in the book written by Kate.

To me that’s the most astonishingly sad aspect of this whole story that despite knowing that their little daughter had woken upset they still felt it acceptable to go out night after night.

Someone mentioned how differently things would have been viewed had it been a couple on benefits from some rough estate.

I remember a journalist at the time said at the beginning all they had was a story that a small child had gone missing from a holiday apartment in Portugal while the parents were out eating and drinking at a restaurant.
The press apparently were intending to go to town with the ‘neglectful parents’ approach until it emerged that it was a a middle class couple, two doctors, and suddenly the approach was full of sympathy.