Madeleine McCann

dragonfly46

I find it very upsetting that people are still believing the conspiracy theories about the McCann’s. They are local to me and I have followed the case closely.
Yes they were wrong to leave the children in the chalets and maybe Madeleine did go looking for them although I believe she told them that the night before a man had been in the room, but I don’t believe for a minute that they had anything to do with her disappearance.
They have suffered enough.

dragonfly, where did you see that Madeleine had said there had been a man in the room? I remember seeing somewhere that she had asked why the parents hadn’t come when they cried, but no mention of a man. The problem with the whole thing is that the armchair detectives have, like all of us, got their information from the internet, and in all probability most of it is inaccurate, but people still repeat it, especially to blame the parents.
They would have been told to show as little emotion as possible by police, as seeing parents upset can please abductors, but this, coupled with the parents ( mostly Gerry) coming across as arrogant, made people turn against them.
The McCanns appear educated, articulate, and are perceived by many as privileged middle class, so, according to the ‘Just World Hypothesis’ where it’s human nature to want the world to be just and fair, the parents must have done something to deserve such a dreadful thing to happen.
Another basic human instinct is the fear that this could happen to you. This is dealt with by saying we would never leave children alone/ go jogging/ play tennis/ wash cuddly toys/ dump fridges, or any of the other probably made up stuff we see online. I’m always aware that it never occurs to these ‘experts’ that surely nobody who was trying to conceal guilt would do all the ‘suspicious’ things that the online sleuths quote as proof!
If it had been the oft-quoted ‘single mother from a council estate’, and she appeared on telly sobbing uncontrollably, she would have got more sympathy ( once folk had finished speculating how she could afford a foreign holiday!)
Sadly, no matter what the outcome, the internet psychologists and detectives will never admit they were wrong, as they must continue to deal with their own insecurities.

Millie22

It's all so terribly sad and I wonder if we will ever know what really happened that night.

I had some sympathy for the M'Cann's but not when I read some excepts from her book. Very odd comments from a mother. There is something not right about how they behaved at the time.

I'm so glad you said that about the book, Millie22. I read it a few years ago. There's no way I believe the conspiracy theories put out by people, but I did find the tone of some of KM's writing very defensive.

Kandinsky

It’s well known - white, pretty, girls/ young women ( and extra bonus if they’re middle class ) almost always get more press attention than any other type of missing person / murder victim.
It’s just the way it is.
People are more interested in them it seems.

I have noticed this too.

SporeRB

What I found strange is when Kate McCann found her daughter missing, she screamed ‘They’ve taken her’.

If I go to a hotel room and find my daughter missing, I will scream ‘Oh my God, she has wandered off somewhere’.

The fact she said that put the idea of abduction right at the very beginning of the investigation.

If the dogs could smell the odour of blood and body in their apartment and their hired car, it could well have been an accident in the apartment that night.

Another thing I found strange is the funding McCann received from the British police amounting to £13.2 million which is a colossal amount of money.

Where did you get the idea that the McCanns received ANY money from the British police?

There is also much weight put upon Kate ‘screaming ‘ They’ve taken her’’ Who reported that, and is it accurate? So many times it is repeated that in their engagement interview Prince Charles said ‘ Whatever love is’, even when the interview has been shown hundreds of times, and his exact words were, ‘ Whatever ‘in love’ means’ Just illustrates that recollections may indeed vary, so why not in Kate McCann’s?

ViceVersa

The 'British culture' to leave children alone? Not where I come from - and as I said, I genuinely do not know a single parent who would have done that. None of us know what really happened to Madeleine - but the cold hard truth is that it probably wouldn't have happened if three very young children had not been left alone.

Not the culture in our family or friendship
Group
The children came out in the evening with us

I have just looked up the distance from the apartment to the tapas bar - it is 50metres apparently.
It seems to me to be in the same small complex.

There are lots of images online.
The apartment looks to be in easy view of the tapas bar.

My house is a terrace and the end of the garden is that far away.
I can't say I would want to go down there for dinner - but I daresay I might have done if I'd had a baby listener device on and my children were asleep as you feel pretty safe in your own garden.

Our previous home was a big old farmhouse in a village. We never locked the door even at night there.
My babies always slept with us - but the older children (3 plus?) might have been taken by someone sneaking in.

I would never have forgiven myself if not locking the door meant my child had been stolen from us - whether of not they had come to harm.

Iam64
The children came out in the evening with us - ours too
..but then we were challenged for letting them sleep on our laps etc and not taking them "home" to a proper bed!

I think if you look at the aerial photos of the site Notspaghetti you will see that the tapas bar was on the other side of the large pool area. To access the apartments the parents would either have to cross the gated pool area or take a diversion down a footpath to the side (which is what they did)

I don’t know about the distance, whether 150 metres is correct, but it’s very clear that they couldn’t have watched their villas from the tapas bar and nor could they have intervened quickly if they had seen something worrying.

I don’t think it’s in any way comparable to being at the end of the garden.

I think the parents have been through more than enough, and I think their pain will never end.

If he did it; and I think he did, he won’t ever admit it.

I absolutely believe that the parents’ version of events is perfectly plausible, and believe that their grief at the loss of their daughter was unmistakably genuine.

Work forward from the group of friends happily drinking and taking turns to check on the children, not ideal, but not particularly blameworthy in the circumstances at that time. I can imagine an opportunist with sinister intentions taking in the scene, and taking his chance, even able to pinpoint where the children were sleeping.

Criticism of the parents and the continuing search is beyond my comprehension.

I don’t think what any of us think or believe happened has any relevance really. Or any judgments on whether they should have left them or not. Everyone will have different views but what matters is evidence.

The prime fact is that Madeline disappeared and that all the subsequent investigations have failed to find her or what happened to her.

Given that investigators have manly followed one line unproductively I think it’s reasonable to suggest that any future investigation should take a fresh look at all the evidence and anomalies. One that looks into alternative scenarios as well as that of possible abduction.

We have no way of knowing exactly what lines of investigation have been followed over the years, here and abroad. There may have been many, and some may have entailed looking closely at the McCanns, and their time in Praia da Luz and in the years since.

The McCann parents, their families, friends and their other children have suffered immeasurably. I would never have left mine in those circumstances. My main fear would have been a child waking, being scared and alone, maybe trying to find me. We were fortunate notspaghetti, in Greece they loved and welcomed our youngsters/infants, never any criticism.
I feel Mr and Mrs McCann will have suffered in ways we can’t begin to comprehend.
It seems possible the key suspect may have been involved so that helps me understand the continuing investigations. We all want to see this kind of offender face justice. It’s hard not to feel sympathy for all the other patents whose children disappeared and for whom less attention has been given

Some hint at a discrepancy between the resources devoted to this case, and others, but that isn’t a justifiable criticism of the McCanns. A similar depth of investigation should be afforded to all families finding themselves in such tragic circumstances.

I agree that some families/individuals are more able to mobilise action on their behalf than others, and can sometimes influence outcomes, but it doesn’t make sense to point the finger of blame when a family does manage to enlist that continuing level of attention.

I read the book too. I know the McCanns were probably told by the police to not show emotion, but nevertheless they do come across as incredibly cold. And they make my blood boil when they make comments like, "it was just like having a drink in the garden on a summer night" or "we have all left our children at some point" I am far from a perfect parent but what they did was child neglect of the worst kind and I will not allow them to speak about 99% of parents in the same way.

Allsorts

Have none of you had children that you put to bed and family and friends are there, with patio doors open you sit just outside on the patio, that is the distance I believe those parents were from their children, in sight. They made a mistake, they were good loving parents, how that guilt must have racked them, they were both doctors and helped people.. A paedophile targeted them, a random premeditated crime. I feel nothing but compassion, has no one never made a mistake?Holding your child's hand in a crowd and they wriggle free, Lost sight of one for an instant. I didn't leave mine, we were lucky if we got a week in a caravan in Wales, whilst there numerous families put their children to bed and sat outside chatting, not us we were as tired as the children after a day out.
They were probably the same distance away as the McCanns.

Well said.

I find it extraordinary that some people blame the parents. Life is full of what-ifs. I have nothing but the greatest sympathy for the McCanns.

I don’t blame the parents for the action of a paedophile, if that’s what happened. That this man watched the children regularly put to bed and left with various adults checking them over the course of an evening.
I can’t avoid saying I’d never do that, nor would my friends or family.

It's not about blame, it is about child safeguarding, pretending that it was OK is not a good idea.

I doubt anyone thinks that what they did was okay but by god they’ve paid the price.

The roof of the apartment was visible from the tapas bar, but not the door itself which was closed but not locked.

This is obviously only information I have read online regarding the case.

Galaxy

It's not about blame, it is about child safeguarding, pretending that it was OK is not a good idea.

I agree. It’s obvious the parents continue to pay a terrible price.
Would anyone defend what this group of adults thought was ok, had they not been middle class professionals

No-one thinks it was ok, but I wonder how many people have done similar? In this case a combination of circumstances resulted in tragic consequences.

Can someone please point to a single 'conspiracy theory' on this thread?

There have been a few posts accusing posters of buying into conspiracy theories, but I don't think there are any. People (including me) have said that the statements don't add up, that the window was not open as KM said it was, that the dogs alerted to blood and cadaverine, but none of that is indicative of a conspiracy.

If MM was taken by an abductor, then she paid a terrible price for her parents' negligence, and I have no doubt that they will be feeling terrible - it's not something I would wish on anyone.

If, on the other hand, she woke up and had an accident in the apartment and this was covered up by her parents and their friends (ie the theory of the policeman who was removed from the case) that's very different.

We don't know which of those things is true, or if something different again happened, as there has (so far) been no body found, but I don't see why one version (the abduction one) is the only explanation that is allowed to be expressed without accusations of speculation and implications of prurience and of believing in conspiracies.

It is all speculation, including the abduction theory, and will remain so until either a body is found or someone confesses.

Well said! Pointing out inconsistencies certainly doesn't mean anyone is spouting 'conspiracy theories'.

Daddima

SporeRB

What I found strange is when Kate McCann found her daughter missing, she screamed ‘They’ve taken her’.

If I go to a hotel room and find my daughter missing, I will scream ‘Oh my God, she has wandered off somewhere’.

The fact she said that put the idea of abduction right at the very beginning of the investigation.

If the dogs could smell the odour of blood and body in their apartment and their hired car, it could well have been an accident in the apartment that night.

Another thing I found strange is the funding McCann received from the British police amounting to £13.2 million which is a colossal amount of money.

Where did you get the idea that the McCanns received ANY money from the British police?

There is also much weight put upon Kate ‘screaming ‘ They’ve taken her’’ Who reported that, and is it accurate? So many times it is repeated that in their engagement interview Prince Charles said ‘ Whatever love is’, even when the interview has been shown hundreds of times, and his exact words were, ‘ Whatever ‘in love’ means’ Just illustrates that recollections may indeed vary, so why not in Kate McCann’s?

Again, if you'd watched the documentaries or the News at the time you would have seen her recount what she said happened when she went to check on the children. She makes a big point about the curtains going 'whooosh' and the shutters being jemmied open, when in fact they were closed and the curtains couldn't have been blown about. She then says that she went back to the bar saying 'They've taken her'.

That is not coming from an armchair detective, or an internet psychologist - it was said to camera by KM herself. I think it may also be in her book, but I haven't read that.