Trump Asks Israel to Pardon Netsnyahu

Oreo

It’s complacency and incompetency rolled into one but that’s all it is , human error which will never be repeated .The evil that hamas wrought was all theirs, not the Israelis.
The Israeli people will hold their own government to account about security failures in due course.

The IDF, Mossad and the Israeli government has never been complacent about the dangers posed by Hamas, so I don't agree with that. Incompetent maybe, but the IDF and Mossad are usually very efficient.

Keepint silent allows terrible things to happen. It has done in the past, from 1933.

All who kept silent, allegedly , are guilty, army, police,,border guards,intelligence services , that’s a large number of Israelis

It’s complacency and incompetency rolled into one but that’s all it is , human error which will never be repeated .The evil that hamas wrought was all theirs, not the Israelis.
The Israeli people will hold their own government to account about security failures in due course.

No, what some of us are saying is that many warnings were given and ignored. That one of the most sophisticated security system was somehow not activated. That many were allowed to go on leave when the warnings were clear of imminent attack, And that is took 6 hours for plant to counter to be put in place. That many Senior military officers at highest level have resigned because of it. And that it seems very bizarre.

You believe the invasion of Hamas on Israel was allowed to take place ?

Although I support Israel I cannot support Netanyahu, Ben-Gvir and Smotrich.
Netanyahu is facing criminal charges
Ben-Gvir and Smotrich are members of the Knesset and both have been sanctioned by other countries including the UK for incitement to violence.
Smotrich has said he wants to cleanse Gaza of all Palestinians and that Jews have a God given right to inhabit the land. He said he will oppose the ending of the conflict in Gaza "with all my heart".
How can anyone support these extreme right wing men.

It was a holiday and large numbers of IDF were on leave. In normal circumstances, perhaps normal. But as clear warnings had been given of increased activity and impending attack, from both outside Israel and inside, surely leave should have been cancelled?

Maremia, it took 6 (SIX) hours for a proper response to the attacks.

When Hamas invaded Israel intelligence service remained silent, warnings from border guards were ignored , who ignored them ? Security services were slow to respond ,
such power for a PM , he silenced all !

Glad to see that you agree that Netanyahu should go on trial..

I know that AnnieB, so much we will never agree on, so be it, but you did ask upthread how did the view about Netanyahu come about.
I thought I would oblige you with some thoughts and reasons.
Yours to take, yours to reject.
That's what discussion is all about.

Like to wait for the inquiry or use the kangaroo court method?

Something you do not wish to believe, does not make another person's view a 'conspiracy'.

Maremia

Netanyahu has in the past given money to Hamas.
Conspiracy theory or fact?

Nobody’s arguing with that

Netanyahu has in the past given money to Hamas.
Conspiracy theory or fact?

How long did it take for the security services to respond?

Mossad is a highly sophisticated intelligence service.
Conspiracy theory or fact?

There were warnings given about the increased activity at the fence.
Conspiracy theory or fact?

Then reports emerged that there had been warnings given. Listed was the communications from female border guards about the suspicious and continuing amount of activity at the fence, in the days, yes days, before the assault.
Not beliefs but facts.

It would never have been stopped at the fence, there were such a huge number involved, over a thousand hamas.
The conspiracy theories are just crazy on this subject.
It was a big let down of the Israeli people by the authorities who were supposed to protect them and who had grown complacent. Thankfully that will never happen again and there will be a time for inquiries after all this is over.Gaza has paid the price sadly for what their own mad politicians and armed supporters have done.

Well, it is hard to refute the evidence Maremia's beliefs are based on. Very well know facts about the very sophisticated intelligence used by the Israeli Government, about the safety of the perimeter, and the massive security systems aroud said perimeter, and the very advanced drones and other missile sytems used for very effective security of said perimeter sense. That cannot be refuted, as the evidence is very clear.

Also clear that many warnings had been given for a long time, and that increased activity was clear. And also evidence that military help took a very long time to arrive, and the attacks could have been stopped in ts tracks, at the fence and on the way. It is all very well documented. The only thing we can disagree about, is the interpretation of why warnings were not taken seriously, why the attack was not stopped at the fence, and on its quite long way to attack- when it should have been quite possible for such a sophisticated security system.

Maremia your belief is just that , your belief, it isn’t mine

AnnieB, I don't think Netanyahu 'allowed' Hamas to commit the Atrocity (and I could be proven wrong after an international trial, when all the facts are assembled),
but
It was always my belief that Mossad was the world's most effective intelligence agency, evidence of this is the accuracy of their most recent strikes on the Iranian leaders, and so I feel there is a dissonance between that belief, and the fact that Hamas was able to pull off such an horrendously successful outrage.
Then reports emerged that there had been warnings given. Listed was the communications from female border guards about the suspicious and continuing amount of activity at the fence, in the days, yes days, before the assault.
More recent accounts say that the Hamas fighters were expecting to die, and were amazed at the lack of 'resistence'.
This begs the question, what went wrong with the intelligence feed? And why?
Then, very recently, and thanks to GN posters I learned that Netanyahu found himself able to give money to Hamas in the past.
A lot of dissonance, among the horror.

Both Putin and Netanyahu lead countries with complex social and political problems. I see two countries quite separate from Europe and the Uk. Talking to anyone who has lived in either of those countries gives me the feeling that I haven’t a hope of really understanding very much at all.

Putin and Netanyahu are merging into the same person. I have a picture in my head of them squabbling about whose turn it is to play with the Trump Toy.