So what do GNs think of Starmer’s decision to recognise Palestine as a state?

Quote Whitewavemark2 Wed 06-Aug-25 08:57:23
Definition of ethnic cleansing

Ethnic cleansing is a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent and terror-inspiring means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group from certain geographic areas.

No mention of the fact that Palestinians are on record telling
the world they will continue with ethnic cleansing, I assume
they mean this planet is a certain geographical area

It matters not a jot you arguing that genocide, nor ethnic cleansing is not taking place.

The world will sit in judgement. Evidence has been and is being collected. The Israeli government by its own rhetoric dams itself.

Declaring Palestine a state will help provide more evidence.

Quote Whitewavemark2 Wed 06-Aug-25 09:05:41
It matters not a jot you arguing that genocide, nor ethnic cleansing is not taking place.

The world will sit in judgement. Evidence has been and is being collected. The Israeli government by its own rhetoric dams itself.

Declaring Palestine a state will help provide more evidence.

No problem with ethnic cleansing of Jews ?

Please clarify wwm2. Your last sentence doesn’t make any sense.

Surely Palestine IS a state.

Aveline

Surely Palestine IS a state.

"De facto", yes it is, "de jure", no it isn't. It's an occupied territory. This includes the West Bank, which had nothing to do with the Hamas attack.

Anniebach

Quote Whitewavemark2 Wed 06-Aug-25 08:57:23
Definition of ethnic cleansing

Ethnic cleansing is a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent and terror-inspiring means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group from certain geographic areas.

No mention of the fact that Palestinians are on record telling
the world they will continue with ethnic cleansing, I assume
they mean this planet is a certain geographical area

It's all mouth and no trousers. Hamas is a defeated military force. It doesn't have the capability to wipe anybody from the planet. On the other hand, Israel has the capability to destroy millions of Palestinians. Don't forget that the ambition of Zionists is to occupy all the land between the Nile and the Euphrates.

Whitewavemark2

Sorry I know thethread has moved on a bit but I did say I would reply today to some of the comments about my previous post.

Yes I said it is a religious war. I know in Islam religion politics and religionare deeply entwined but the reason I said religious is because of the constant mention by many that this war is about land. It is not, it is ideological. The Arabs and Jews living in the BritishMandate area of Palestine were both offered part of the land as a State. The Jews accepted the Arabs did not. Since then the Arabs have been offered a state on numerous occasions. Each time it has been rejected. The Arabs want Israel gone.

Islam is nothing like Christainty. The early Islamic expansion was done by force. Can't say too much on Christianity as I will get accusedof going off thread with a theological discussion.

There is no genocide in Gaza. If Israel wanted to kill everyone in Gaza they could have done it many months ago. Why warn people by text and leaflet drop before a militarystrike if you want to kill them? Did Hamas give any warnings before they fired rockets intoIsrael which they have been doing for years or on Oct 7th?

The Jews have experience anti semtism in virtual every country, ranging from discrimination to being massacred, I think China and India areone of the few places theywere not persecuted.

You say that there are 2.5million Palestinian refugees. The definition of refugees regarding the Palestinans is very misleading. They live in houses or apartments, have cars, wear nice clothes and have plenty to eat,manyofthem are better off than some people in England. Theyare an example of the UN double standards and anti semitic position.

You say "there were long periods when the two groups lived very peacefully together sharing culture and economic activity." That is a myth.

At the start of the war in 1948 some Arabs were expelled by the Israelis, not unusual in a war, they could have killed them all like theArabs did to theJews in the areas they captured. Many Arabs stayed, I think it was over 100,000. Many of the Arabs left to escape the fighting or because before Israel was attacked they were told to leave by the Arab leaders. They were told that they could return after they had wiped the Jews from the face of the earth. Arabs who stayed behind were to be considered as collaborators with the enemy. How many Jews stayed in Arab countries?

Nothing justifies the terrorist attacks in London, Manchester or America, I couldsay more but I need to leave shortly.

Claremont- I have read theTorah, Nevi'im, and Ketuvim - the Old Testament. And the crusades, although considered by many as a Christain campaign, were far from Christian. The so-called "Christian" leaders were not Christian. Read the New Testament, read the teachings of Jesus. Did they act in the way Jesus would have? During that time the established church was corrupt and evil, not Christian at all.

One last thing - where are the pictures of the starving masses in Gaza? The only pictures I have seen of anyone close to dying because of lack of food are the recent videos of 2 hostages.

If anyone has seen the evidence of the starving masses please let me know and share the links.

I think that we will have to agree to disagree on a large part if your assertions, as we are in danger of dis-railing the thread, and I see no point in disappearing down the rabbit hole of historical evidence.

With regard to pictures of starvation.

Let in the journalists!! It isn’t rocket science.

Let the world sit in judgement on Israel’s actions and see what is decided.

What I will say is that Netanyahu and his government have been a disaster for the good will around the world that was always a given towards Israel.

No longer - incredibly sad and misjudged.

A refugee in law is a stateless person - it says nothing about living standards😄😄

Hyperbole does nothing to add to your argument, I’m afraid. I get that it is a very emotional subject, but accuracy will always be treated with more consideration and respect.

We do however have written and verbal testament of severe malnutrition from British doctors who have reported to parliament.

They describe how, children who would normally be expected to live after certain surgery are dying because of severe malnutrition and their body’s inability to repair.

We also know from another British doctor that nearly 20000 children need treatment for severe malnutrition.

This witnessing is being repeated by other NGO like MSF, Red Cross etc. throughout the world.

Thank you Phil51 facts are so needed and you give them

Whitewavemark2

I think that we will have to agree to disagree on a large part if your assertions, as we are in danger of dis-railing the thread, and I see no point in disappearing down the rabbit hole of historical evidence.

With regard to pictures of starvation.

Let in the journalists!! It isn’t rocket science.

Let the world sit in judgement on Israel’s actions and see what is decided.

What I will say is that Netanyahu and his government have been a disaster for the good will around the world that was always a given towards Israel.

No longer - incredibly sad and misjudged.

A refugee in law is a stateless person - it says nothing about living standards😄😄

Hyperbole does nothing to add to your argument, I’m afraid. I get that it is a very emotional subject, but accuracy will always be treated with more consideration and respect.

That’s strange as you often disappear down the rabbit hole of historical evidence/ myth when it suits you as do various others on here who constantly talk of it.
On pics of starvation, there really aren’t any, if you study recent pics of groups of Gazans they are nothing like the starved hostages.
A refugee leads people to think of people living sad lives in tents whereas Gaza before this conflict was as phil describes with Gazans leading happy lives with apartments and cars.
As for hyperbole! There is none tho it abounds in some comments on the thread.
phil isn’t the emotional one on the thread either, what a joke.
Your own posts may be treated with more consideration and respect if you posted facts.

Malnutrition isn’t starvation btw and there is malnutrition in every country in the world at times.
It simply means poor nutrition.

The hostages have been deliberately starved.

Oreo

Malnutrition isn’t starvation btw and there is malnutrition in every country in the world at times.
It simply means poor nutrition.

Simply, really? This is obscene.

Gabor Maté is a holocaust survivor and an self-confessed ex-zionist. He explains why he has changed his mind here.
As he says this is not historically controversial- and there was NO co-existence. Land taken in 1967 and beyond should be returned to Palestinians as it was illegally stolen, with the protection of the Israeli Governement and the IDF, with the intention of taking all later, NOW.

www.facebook.com/share/v/1FDckn5tYB/

Careful Claremont as you may be accused of ‘disappearing down the rabbit hole of historical evidence’.

Starvation is an extreme form of malnutrition, so malnutrition doesn't necessarily mean that nutrition is just poor. Where aid is being deliberately withheld/severely restricted the end result is the same.

Unfortunately Claremont even the words of a holocaust survivor aren't taken seriously by some, if it doesn't suit their agenda.

Oreo
Malnutrition isn’t starvation btw and there is malnutrition in every country in the world at times. It simply means poor nutrition

‘Simply’
What a totally morally bankrupt thing to say.

Comparing IRA with Hamas

Why not? They killed, they kidnapped, they were terrorists.

Malnutrition isn’t good and has resulted in the last two months of withdrawal of aid , which I don’t agree with incidentally.
It means food has become very basic with little meat or fruit or none at all.
It isn’t a starvation levels and aid is now being air dropped and lorries going in ( mainly looted of course) and the ‘hubs’ are still handing out thousands of meals.
Where are all the pics of starving people? Hamas would be showing them nonstop if they existed.

StoneofDestiny

*Comparing IRA with Hamas*

Why not? They killed, they kidnapped, they were terrorists.

I think people have forgotten the sort of things the IRA did. However, correct me if I'm wrong, but the solution was to recognise the grievances that resulted in terrorism as a last resort and have talks with the terrorists.

Yes MayBee the GFA brought all factions round the table, Sinn Fein, the Unionists and the UK government, started by John Major and carried on by Blair and the amazing Mo Mowlam. It addressed grievances and gave all a voice, finally recognising the political arm of the IRA, Sinn Fein and giving them clout in the political process.
This was after decades when the IRA had embarked upon a campaign of mainland bombings in the UK, so yes you can draw parallels between this and Hamas and also see how getting Hamas round the table with all concerned could be the only way forwards. Other options really don’t bear thinking about.

Facts?

As Gabor Mate says, 1948 is a fact- that no-one here refuses to accept.

1967 and beyond is also a fact, the constant, illegal, violent andf abhorrent illegal occupation of more and more territory that was never ever meant to be part of Israel. The West closed a blind eye, because it suited them. And now the confirmation that Netanyahu intends to take the whole of Gaza, and I am sure, the West Bank and beyond- they often use the expression from the to the *. Facts.

Fact too that I have never ever made an antisemitic comment, not one, even though some chose to report me for such. Because I am not antisemitic.

Why was Arafat murdered? We all know why- historical fact.