So what do GNs think of Starmer’s decision to recognise Palestine as a state?

Isn’t it obvious that mixed settlements have the potential for less conflict? Gaza with no Jews hasn’t worked out well. The West Bank might be a better option with mixed settlements.

LovesBach

Last year an article that went into the violent history of Palestine and the State of Israel, explaining much of the conflict, concluded that it would be foolish to take sides as the situation is so complex. What I am struggling to understand is - where exactly are the Palestinians supposed to live? They had the West Bank and the Gaza strip, but what do they have now?

Yes, it’s very complex indeed.
The West Bank should be left alone and for the future I think that Gaza will be able to govern itself but will have Israel overseeing things for a while.

StoneofDestiny

phil51

It's obvious now where you are coming from - fundamentalism.
Most mainstream Christian's, Muslims and Jews are not fundamentalists. They are educated beyond that and have the capacity to think for themselves, check out more educated interpretations of religious scripts and understand the value of everyone's life, not thinking of themselves as 'superior beings' by birth or religious entitlement.
An 'eye for an eye' as they say makes the whole world blind.

You have complete missed the target with that comment.

growstuff

phil51

growstuff

phil51

Whitewavemark2

The point is which some seem to be not understanding.

We have nothing to say about the religions of the perpetrators and victims - it is primarily the history and politics of the area.

So this discussion about Judaism and Islam is a total red herring.

Not true

Please explain.

Islam and politics are so woven together that they are impossible to separate. At the root of the war is the Islamic ideology and until that ideology changes there will never be any lasting peace no matter what the politicians do. So innocent children and people will continue to suffer horribly. Afghanistan is an example, a tragic waste of life of USA and British soldiers and many Afghans, and we are back where we started, the Taliban in charge.

Thanks for the explanation, but I disagree. At the root of the war in Gaza is the fact Gazans had their land taken away from them.

Of course you have every right to disagree. But I would love to see the evidence that Palestinians have had their land taken from them. And if I am wrong I will hold my hands and say sorry. I have asked for evidence before but no has been forthcoming.

Opps Sorry should read none has been forthcoming.

phil51

growstuff

phil51

growstuff

phil51

Whitewavemark2

The point is which some seem to be not understanding.

We have nothing to say about the religions of the perpetrators and victims - it is primarily the history and politics of the area.

So this discussion about Judaism and Islam is a total red herring.

Not true

Please explain.

Islam and politics are so woven together that they are impossible to separate. At the root of the war is the Islamic ideology and until that ideology changes there will never be any lasting peace no matter what the politicians do. So innocent children and people will continue to suffer horribly. Afghanistan is an example, a tragic waste of life of USA and British soldiers and many Afghans, and we are back where we started, the Taliban in charge.

Thanks for the explanation, but I disagree. At the root of the war in Gaza is the fact Gazans had their land taken away from them.

Of course you have every right to disagree. But I would love to see the evidence that Palestinians have had their land taken from them. And if I am wrong I will hold my hands and say sorry. I have asked for evidence before but no has been forthcoming.

Is that really a real question? Really?

Palestinians are having their land in the West Bank taken from them phil.

In answer to your question 16.03 ronib as to whether we can afford financially to stop selling arms to Israel, for me humanity and morality should never be superseded by financial gain.

I think the arms we sell to Israel are a tiny amount and wouldn’t amount to more than a gesture if we stopped.However that gesture would be taken by Israel as being very unfriendly and unfair to an ally.I don’t think there’s a chance just now that the UK would do this.

Netanyahu is obviously not God fearing, he thinks he is. Israel have a huge arsenal of weapons and intelligence. How dare they because of their power systematically starve or bomb any Nation to death. All in the name of religion.. Where do people believe Palestinians lived before Israel took their land. The world has watched genocide and done nothing. There is one God, if you belueve in him, one superpower, to do these acts denies this. Do you know how many religions there are in the world, all believing only they have Gods ear and favour, it's ridiculous. The Ten Commandments are a good rule of law , anyone I am sure of any religion have the equivalent Don't excuse what is happening is in the name of religion because no religion would sanction it, only a person who thinks himself above it.

All these pompous quotes about quotes area ridiculous, who would think them worth reading repeatedly is puzzling.

Land grabbers are determined to occupy Gaza

“Since Israel began its onslaught in Gaza, settler groups have been calling for the resettlement of Gaza. These radicals go beyond the families that were evacuated in 2005. They include the Nachala settler organisation whose raison d'etre is establishing Jewish settlements to control the West Bank and Gaza.

The liberal newspaper Haaretz recently reported a Nachala-organised march by thousands of Israelis on July 30 to the borders of Gaza, calling for the settlement of areas of the northern Gaza Strip currently occupied by the IDF. Operational plans to establish settlements have been drawn up and 1,000 families have signed up to reestablish a Jewish community in Gaza.”

Conversation

Better young Israelis there than Hamas. A mixed population may well see a more peaceful solution. Enforced segregation has not worked so far. wwm2

I know it would be a gesture Oreo but a gesture that would leave Israel in no doubt that we in no way support or condone what's happening.

IMO it's unfair to expect any country to support genocide because they're an ally.

Overlooking the fact that land grabbing is illegal.

Personally I am all for the rule of law.

Smileless2012

I know it would be a gesture Oreo but a gesture that would leave Israel in no doubt that we in no way support or condone what's happening.

IMO it's unfair to expect any country to support genocide because they're an ally.

Germany’s decision is harder hitting.

Yes it is WWM. I hadn't realised that they are only second to America for the amount of arms they sell to Israel.

Good for them.

Smileless2012

Yes it is WWM. I hadn't realised that they are only second to America for the amount of arms they sell to Israel.

Good for them.

I also think that it means a lot.

Germany has for historical reasons always been strong supporters of Israel since 1948, and almost it seems felt obliged to make reparations however it could.

To make this decision is pretty massive imo.

We don’t stop young Israelis coming to the UK and settling down here if all paperwork is in order. In fact we have an open borders policy by and large. We definitely have very socially mixed communities and that might make for a better country. At least it gives some security against extremism.

ronib

We don’t stop young Israelis coming to the UK and settling down here if all paperwork is in order. In fact we have an open borders policy by and large. We definitely have very socially mixed communities and that might make for a better country. At least it gives some security against extremism.

But we don’t kick people off their land in order to accommodate them, always supposing we have an open borders policy🙄

Whitewavemark2

Overlooking the fact that land grabbing is illegal.

Personally I am all for the rule of law.

Thinking of another thread, it seems that some pick and choose. If I had to choose between condemning only one group, and the choice was between young people who protest against a genocide, or those who are committing it- I know which I'd condemn.

Exactly so

Many countries now have spoken against Israel's actions. Even China has said the land belongs to Palestine.
Turkey have asked for the world community to stop Israel's attack.

wwm2 so far around 62k dead souls in this war. Hamas is committing genocide.
Why not wait and see exactly what Netanyahu finds as a workable solution? We really do come across as lacking real information oka clueless.

Turkey supports Iran/Hamas.

The last time this sort of thing happened was in Bosnia I think, when thousands of Muslim civilians were massacred and it was officially recognised as a genocide.

I am a bit muddled in my head as to whether it was UN or NATO finally got it sorted. Maybe a bit of both?

There is the huge fly in the ointment, as far as Gaza is concerned and that is the USA

But I do agree that Israel needs curtailing.

We do have a couple of months as far as I can tell.