So what do GNs think of Starmer’s decision to recognise Palestine as a state?

Reuters today have said that 24 foreign ministers including the UK have signed to say the suffering in Gaza is intolerable and ask Israel to allow unimpeded aid in.
Will Israel listen?

Quote AGAA4 Tue 12-Aug-25 16:55:49
Reuters today have said that 24 foreign ministers including the UK have signed to say the suffering in Gaza is intolerable and ask Israel to allow unimpeded aid in.
Will Israel listen?

Did they ask for release of the Hostages ?

Interesting piece from CNN showing just how many countries have now recognised a Palestinian state. The UK is a very long way from being a lone voice.
edition.cnn.com/world/middleeast/countries-recognize-palestinian-state-intl-vis

I think it is something like 150 out of 190 countries recognise Palestine.

The point is now is to do something about it.

AGAA4

Reuters today have said that 24 foreign ministers including the UK have signed to say the suffering in Gaza is intolerable and ask Israel to allow unimpeded aid in.
Will Israel listen?

He's got ear defenders on. 🙉

Israel now run the real risk of becoming a rogue state, losing any respect it had on the world stage with Netanyahu and his cronies facing war crime charges if they visit countries that used to be allies.

Annie, they were not drafting a peace treaty but addressing a single urgent humanitarian crisis. & the solution to the famine in Gaza is in Israel's control, not Hamas'.

Why should a petition to Israel ask for the release of the hostages?

I imagine Trump will still give Bibi the red carpet treatment though, he is after purchasing a piece of real estate - Gaza - at mates rates.

Allira

Maremia

'Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East'. Not sure where this oft quoted myth came from, but in a democracy all citizens of a certain age may vote.

They can in Israel too, as far as I am aware.

Residents may not, nor in other countries either.

People may have permanent residency in Australia, for instance, but are not eligible to vote as they are not citizens.

Most countries restrict voting in national elections to their own citizens, but some allow foreign nationals to vote in local elections.
UK General Elections someone must:
^be either a British citizen, a qualifying Commonwealth citizen or a citizen of the Republic of Ireland^

So looking at this democracy which is so often held up as a beacon amongst the rest.

Israel within its territory, controls the lives of approx 7 million Palestinians. None of whom has legal equality under Israeli law.

Of those roughly70% who reside in Gaza and the West Bank are not even citizens of the country that has total control over them.

The other 30% do enjoy citizenship, but if a profoundly second class kind. They can vote and attend parliament, but have to attend segregated schools and it is illegal to have an interfaith marriage.

With regard to land - this is overseen by the Israeli Land Authority, which controls 90% of all land. It stated aim is “not to have allegiance to the Israeli public, but only to those of the Jewish faith”

Which is why the Palestinian towns and cities are always so crowded

And do we have a situation that allows Jews the right to self determination, but also dominance over another group.

This is what is called apartheid.

So Israel is not a democratic state. It is profoundly anti-democratic.

Quote valdavi Tue 12-Aug-25 17:41:17
Annie, they were not drafting a peace treaty but addressing a single urgent humanitarian crisis. & the solution to the famine in Gaza is in Israel's control, not Hamas'.

Why should a petition to Israel ask for the release of the hostages?

Hostages imprisoned since 7th October 2023 and at least one
is being starved is not a humanitarian crisis ? Why not ?

WWM spot on, and how galling must it be that Palestinian refugees in Jordan etc., have no right to return whereas anyone of the Jewish faith around the world can go and live in Israel and be given citizenship.
So many injustices and inequalities that have been in place for many decades.

Israel have been actively encouraging people from all over the world to go to live there for some years now.
Yet millions of Palestinians driven off their homes and land for decades have no right of return.

Hostages are being starved because their captors and their captor's families are being starved.So Israel is the proper recipient of a petition to address that, & Israel can't release the hostages becuase it's not them holdiong them.

If Hamas were deliberately starving hostages, they would not still be alive after nearly 2 years of captivity.

It’s a miracle any hostages are still alive after nearly two years of Israeli bombing and now starvation. It’s clear Netanyahu is not concerned about them because had he kept to the agreement in March they would have been home months ago.

I was merely explaining why, in most countries, only citizens of that country have the franchise, Whitewave and not other residents.

I'm sure you knew that so please don't try to put me into a pro-Netanyahu pigeonhole, thank you.

Netanyahu has washed his hands of the hostages and I feel sorry for their families who must feel so betrayed by the government. The only way to free the remaining hostages, as has been done before, would be for Netanyahu to attempt to negotiate with Hamas to ensure a ceasefire, during which time aid could safely be delivered and hostages returned.
The very fact that Netanyahu is now expanding the war zone, initiating a full occupation, suggests he doesn’t care a jot about the hostages.

If Hamas kill the last 20 is it? then surely the crime is theirs?

Allira

I was merely explaining why, in most countries, only citizens of that country have the franchise, Whitewave and not other residents.

I'm sure you knew that so please don't try to put me into a pro-Netanyahu pigeonhole, thank you.

Oh! I was sort of simply writing to your post not criticising it or pigeon holing you😊

I was just trying to add to our knowledge
I’ve been doing a lot of reading lately.

So following on from my post from which I got a slapped wrist😄😄😄

Apartheid is always violent.

In this case because Palestinians are living under a state that is not accountable to them - whose citizenship they cannot attain and whose leaders they cannot choose.
In the first 23 years of this century Israel jailed 13000 children. 97% were interrogated without an adult present, and 75% suffered physical violence.

ronib

If Hamas kill the last 20 is it? then surely the crime is theirs?

Yes, if the remaining hostages are killed by Hamas the crime of killing the hostages is theirs, am not an apologist for Hamas, but the crime of not negotiating a ceasefire to secure the release of the hostages and send aid to starving Palestinians, meaning some of them die as well, is Netanyahu’s.

I forgot to add a reference to my reading.

“Being Jewish after the destruction of Gaza”

Professor Peter Beinhart

valdavi

Hostages are being starved because their captors and their captor's families are being starved.So Israel is the proper recipient of a petition to address that, & Israel can't release the hostages becuase it's not them holdiong them.

If Hamas were deliberately starving hostages, they would not still be alive after nearly 2 years of captivity.

Simply not true.
No men in the streets in Gaza look like the male hostage shown in the video.I suggest you do a close up look at people in the Gaza pics.A lot of men look quite burley and none at all are staving.The hostage looked exactly like the awful Belsen photos.

Babs03

ronib

If Hamas kill the last 20 is it? then surely the crime is theirs?

Yes, if the remaining hostages are killed by Hamas the crime of killing the hostages is theirs, am not an apologist for Hamas, but the crime of not negotiating a ceasefire to secure the release of the hostages and send aid to starving Palestinians, meaning some of them die as well, is Netanyahu’s.

Victim blaming yet again.

Babs03

Netanyahu has washed his hands of the hostages and I feel sorry for their families who must feel so betrayed by the government. The only way to free the remaining hostages, as has been done before, would be for Netanyahu to attempt to negotiate with Hamas to ensure a ceasefire, during which time aid could safely be delivered and hostages returned.
The very fact that Netanyahu is now expanding the war zone, initiating a full occupation, suggests he doesn’t care a jot about the hostages.

It’s amazing how much you know of what’s in Netanyahu’s mind, got a crystal ball maybe.
Do you imagine doing any dealing with hamas is easy? They don’t respond to anything like normal people, because they aren’t normal.

I don’t have a crystal ball Oreo but I can access news reports from a variety of sources, which is what most people do.