So what do GNs think of Starmer’s decision to recognise Palestine as a state?

Quote Mamie Sun 03-Aug-25 11:29:35
Anniebach
There are about 4 million Moslems and a quarter of a million Jews in the UK. France has many more of both but the Moslems outnumber the Jews by a greater factor than in the UK. I think both Starmer and Macron are mostly playing domestic politics when planning to recognise a Palestinian state. It will founder on Hamas's intransigent demands.

I very much doubt Starmer had a choice, there are quite a number of Labour MP’s have a high number of Muslim voters, if he hadn’t gone with the flow would there have been
a push to change leader ? He wants to do much good for the
country
That's interesting that you think Macron is playing domestic politics, because it isn't my impression from French media and talking to friends and neighbours. It seems to me that with the vast majority of UN countries supporting the recognition of Palestine, it is a genuine acknowledgement that the time is right. What made you think otherwise?

I spoke of Stsrmer

Anniebach

How many countries share a capital?

Jerusalem is shared by several religions, coincidentally with being a capital city

Quote David49 Sun 03-Aug-25 11:42:04
Anniebach
How many countries share a capital?
Jerusalem is shared by several religions, coincidentally with being a capital city

I asked how many countries not how many faiths

Anniebach

Quote Mamie Sun 03-Aug-25 11:29:35
Anniebach
There are about 4 million Moslems and a quarter of a million Jews in the UK. France has many more of both but the Moslems outnumber the Jews by a greater factor than in the UK. I think both Starmer and Macron are mostly playing domestic politics when planning to recognise a Palestinian state. It will founder on Hamas's intransigent demands.

I very much doubt Starmer had a choice, there are quite a number of Labour MP’s have a high number of Muslim voters, if he hadn’t gone with the flow would there have been
a push to change leader ? He wants to do much good for the
country
That's interesting that you think Macron is playing domestic politics, because it isn't my impression from French media and talking to friends and neighbours. It seems to me that with the vast majority of UN countries supporting the recognition of Palestine, it is a genuine acknowledgement that the time is right. What made you think otherwise?

I spoke of Stsrmer

What you actually said was "I think both Starmer and Macron are mostly playing domestic politics when planning to recognise a Palestinian state" so I assumed you meant Macron as well.

Quote Mamie Sun 03-Aug-25 12:08:38
Anniebach
Quote Mamie Sun 03-Aug-25 11:29:35
Anniebach
There are about 4 million Moslems and a quarter of a million Jews in the UK. France has many more of both but the Moslems outnumber the Jews by a greater factor than in the UK. I think both Starmer and Macron are mostly playing domestic politics when planning to recognise a Palestinian state. It will founder on Hamas's intransigent demands.

I very much doubt Starmer had a choice, there are quite a number of Labour MP’s have a high number of Muslim voters, if he hadn’t gone with the flow would there have been
a push to change leader ? He wants to do much good for the
country
That's interesting that you think Macron is playing domestic politics, because it isn't my impression from French media and talking to friends and neighbours. It seems to me that with the vast majority of UN countries supporting the recognition of Palestine, it is a genuine acknowledgement that the time is right. What made you think otherwise?

I spoke of Stsrmer
What you actually said was "I think both Starmer and Macron are mostly playing domestic politics when planning to recognise a Palestinian state" so I assumed you meant Macron as well.

No, Mamie said that, I copied her post to reply re Starmer

I can see now Anniebach that you were quoting Grantanow's post of 10.57 but you had copied her post at 11.08 without her name, so it read as if you had written it.
I would obviously take issue issue with Grantanow accusing Macron of playing domestic politics. As a permanent resident of France, I absolutely do not agree with that view.

Macron may do anything needed to improve his standing with voters just like most PM’s do.
Including Starmer.

Oreo

Macron may do anything needed to improve his standing with voters just like most PM’s do.
Including Starmer.

Why would he do that? He is coming to the end of his second term as President and can't stand again. I have confidence him to believe he is doing the right thing. As I said I don't hear much dissent from friends and neighbours.

Quote Mamie Sun 03-Aug-25 12:47:31
I can see now Anniebach that you were quoting Grantanow's post of 10.57 but you had copied her post at 11.08 without her name, so it read as if you had written it.
I would obviously take issue issue with Grantanow accusing Macron of playing domestic politics. As a permanent resident of France, I absolutely do not agree with that view.

Thank you Mamie my knowledge of French politics is very low

It doesn’t really matter tho Mamie whether he does it for reasons of trying to improve his standing or for personal reasons.None of it matters as it won’t magically make a Palestine State anyway.
But it does embolden hamas and is that what countries really want?

Oreo

It doesn’t really matter tho Mamie whether he does it for reasons of trying to improve his standing or for personal reasons.None of it matters as it won’t magically make a Palestine State anyway.
But it does embolden hamas and is that what countries really want?

I believe he is in agreement with 147 of the 193 United Nations countries.
I have been re-reading a book about Sykes-Picot; I think you really do have to go back to that (and Balfour) to understand the issues.

But it does embolden Hamas and is that what countries really want?

Sad to say, I think so.

Palestine is run by Islamic terrorists.

SporeRB

I, on the other hand, am glad that Keir Stammer and Britain, together with France and Canada, have joined the other 147 countries (75% of United Nation member states) in recognition of a new Palestine state. Since then, more countries have declared their support for the two-state solution.

Hopefully, this international pressure will put an end to Israel committing genocide through starvation against Palestinians.

I cannot wrap my head around the fact that the Israel government is doing to the Palestinians what the Nazis did to the Jews during holocaust. Perhaps this is a case of violence begets violence.

How many of the 147 member states are dictatorships, one party states and theocracies?

The book is called The Line in the Sand by James Barr and is about the results of the imperialist squabbling between England and France, when carving up the lands of the former Ottoman Empire after the First World War.

Ten per cent of the French population is Moslem compared with about half million Jews. Regardless of anecdotal material from French friends and neighbours ( which will depend on where one lives) it is plain that Macron and French politicians cannot disregard 10% of the population. Le Pen ( who must reflect a considerable proportion of the population - given her polling figures despite the legal ban subject to appeal - has criticised Macron's intention, referring to Hamas as a terrorist state.

Given Corbyn's new party Starmer cannot afford to ignore the Moslem vote.

For Labour British Jews are no longer key voters. Very sadly.

Grantanow

SporeRB

I, on the other hand, am glad that Keir Stammer and Britain, together with France and Canada, have joined the other 147 countries (75% of United Nation member states) in recognition of a new Palestine state. Since then, more countries have declared their support for the two-state solution.

Hopefully, this international pressure will put an end to Israel committing genocide through starvation against Palestinians.

I cannot wrap my head around the fact that the Israel government is doing to the Palestinians what the Nazis did to the Jews during holocaust. Perhaps this is a case of violence begets violence.

How many of the 147 member states are dictatorships, one party states and theocracies?

Have to say I don't know the precise answer to that. How many is it?

Grantanow

Ten per cent of the French population is Moslem compared with about half million Jews. Regardless of anecdotal material from French friends and neighbours ( which will depend on where one lives) it is plain that Macron and French politicians cannot disregard 10% of the population. Le Pen ( who must reflect a considerable proportion of the population - given her polling figures despite the legal ban subject to appeal - has criticised Macron's intention, referring to Hamas as a terrorist state.

Given Corbyn's new party Starmer cannot afford to ignore the Moslem vote.

For Labour British Jews are no longer key voters. Very sadly.

As I said in my post I did also base my opinion on reading, watching and listening to French media.
Le Pen would say that wouldn't she?

When the Palestinians stop saying they want to destroy Israel, and return the hostages, then they should be allowed to form a state

When the Palestinians stop wanting to destroy Israel and Hamas return all the hostages, then they deserve their own state

If Starmer, Carney and Macron had any kind of moral compass, recognition of a Palestinian state would be predicated on the immediate release of the hostages.

If a person takes citizenship of a country then their allegiance is to that country, not to the country of their origin.

The palistinians recognised the right of Israel in 1992.

Israel has never accepted the right of Palestine and have spent decades taking more and more land from the Palestinians. We all know this.

If Gazans accept and return hostages they need the promise by Israel not to start the bombing afterwards. This promise has not been given by Israel. In fact they say they will continue the killing.

So the hostages are not released. It’s all they have to bargain with, tragic though that is for the hostages and their families.
They could have been released as long ago as March but Israel broke their agreement and carried on bombing.

So who is stopping the return of hostages. ? It’s not Palestine.

The Palestinians had a state from 2005 when the Israelis withdrew, untold millions poured in which they used to build miles of tunnels and fill with arms with the sole idea of wiping out Israel, October 7th a day of murderous savagery was not only perpetrated by Hamas but also 1000s of Gazans, who also colluded in the holding of hostages many of whom are still being held, starved and beaten. Starmer has merely encouraged this with his statement and shames us all

What you also have to understand when talking about 10% is that the vast majority of French Muslims are from the former French territories of Tunisia, Algeria, French Morocco and sub-Saharan Africa. Many had French nationality and / or citizenship before they moved to France, where they have lived for generations. The data suggests that they tend to vote Socialist, so not sure the impact on the Renaissance party would be relevant (even if it survives after Macron goes in 2027).