Israel/Gaza War - Hundreds of Israeli ex-officials appeal to Trump to help end Gaza war

What Israel is doing has gone way beyond what is necessary. Hamas have been weakened with many leaders killed. That is what international law will say is enough.

Israel have carried on killing innocents and as Smotrich has said they will flatten Gaza and cleanse it of Palestinians. That means all even those who aren't Hamas.
I believe that has been their aim from the start.
As Babs03 has said Israel will be in far more danger than ever. Hopefully this extreme right wing government will be voted out in just over a year.

Correction - expel not expend

Eliminating Hamas could occur but it won’t eliminate the threat of terrorism against Israel, the next group that rises out of the ashes of Gaza may not call itself Hamas but you can bet that those who have seen loved ones ripped apart by bombs or starved to death will not forgive or forget, just as Israel cannot forgive or forget what happened on Oct 7th. Unfortunately the revenge Israel has visited upon innocent civilians will result in a similar response from Gaza at some point in the future, whatever shape that future takes.
Revenge is always a two way road, and will lead to a never ending conflict that will not make Israel safer or more secure but the total opposite.
This is why genocide is preferable, with Netanyahu thinking that if he kills as many Palestinians as possible or simply expend them he can ensure that such terrorism never occurs again. But doing this just ensures the opposite, for wherever Palestinians are expelled to there will emerge a hard core who want justice for the innocents massacred.
If we expect this sense of justice from Israelis we should not be surprised when Palestinians feel the same way. They are human and this is human nature.

If hamas isn’t completely eliminated in Gaza in the next few months, tho I think they will be, then the job of defence isn’t done.
It may seem disproportionate to some but it has to take place.

There is an interesting article on BBC website by Ros Atkins discussing the disproportionate response by Israel in its defence.
The majority of those interviewed including a supreme court judge, barristers and university professors have agreed that Israel have gone beyond what it can claim as defence with some saying that defence isn't it's ultimate goal.
This is what some of us on this thread have been saying for a long time.

Babs03

silverlining48

It’s getting harder being a Labour supporter in these unsettling times.

I have given up on them after supporting them for all my voting life. Am 68 now.
This is not a party with a social conscience or any conscience it seems.

(Have a look on this thread where you can discuss Labour)
www.gransnet.com/forums/news_and_politics/1351568-Mainstream-Labour

Just heard Linerker’s acceptance speech for his TV award, he acknowledged it was because he used his popularity as a platform to speak out, his audience cheered loudly. Antisemitism is rampant in this country

silverlining48

It’s getting harder being a Labour supporter in these unsettling times.

I have given up on them after supporting them for all my voting life. Am 68 now.
This is not a party with a social conscience or any conscience it seems.

AGAA4

Starmer said he disapproved of the attack on Qatar so I hope he has had some strong words with the president.
Not sure he will.

I doubt it.
The man does what he is told and hasn’t got the backbone to challenge this.

Starmer said he disapproved of the attack on Qatar so I hope he has had some strong words with the president.
Not sure he will.

It’s getting harder being a Labour supporter in these unsettling times.

I think so too. There is strong lobbying of the BBC and the government too, by Israel. I was disappointed that the president of Israel was welcomed by Starmer at Downing St yesterday.

The BBC were pressured into suspending him is what I meant Anniebach.

My view is that they bowed to pressure.

I don’t know if rat ever was antisemetic but I have never heard rats as a slur against Jews ( rats are apparently very intelligent).
The only remark about rats is those leaving the sinking ship as referred to by AGAA4.
In my experience it’s often made half jokingly, to another member of staff leaving a public service job. Or more generally anyone leaving any unsuccessful venture.

Quote AGAA4 Thu 11-Sept-25 16:23:45
Anniebach
AGAA4 Thu 11-Sept-25 15:46:18
A lot of people didn't associate a rat with Jewish people. I certainly didn't.

A lot of people didn’t read or hear of him being suspended from the BBC !
You have said yourself that the BBC aren't to be trusted so why trust them on this.?
I can believe he didn't understand what the rat meant as others didn't either.
A rat has always been used to describe a dishonest, disreputable type of person. "The rats have left the sinking ship".
Maybe like me and others Linekar used it in that sense rather than an antisemitic slur.

Why was he suspended? Obviously the BBC viewed it as unacceptable,

Anniebach

AGAA4 Thu 11-Sept-25 15:46:18
A lot of people didn't associate a rat with Jewish people. I certainly didn't.

A lot of people didn’t read or hear of him being suspended from the BBC !

You have said yourself that the BBC aren't to be trusted so why trust them on this.?
I can believe he didn't understand what the rat meant as others didn't either.
A rat has always been used to describe a dishonest, disreputable type of person. "The rats have left the sinking ship".
Maybe like me and others Linekar used it in that sense rather than an antisemitic slur.

AGAA4 Thu 11-Sept-25 15:46:18
A lot of people didn't associate a rat with Jewish people. I certainly didn't.

A lot of people didn’t read or hear of him being suspended from the BBC !

AGAA4

A lot of people didn't associate a rat with Jewish people. I certainly didn't.

Neither did Lineker, and he apologised for not making that connection.
I applaud him for using his privileged position to speak out for those without a voice right now.
I agree it was right for the rat emoji to be called out, as did Lineker, but this was not antisemitism. He has always called out the Israeli government and never made this about Jewish people.
I seem to remember Rachel Riley from Countdown using a platform to make overtly Islamophobic remarks, she didn’t need an emoji her remarks were enough.

A lot of people didn't associate a rat with Jewish people. I certainly didn't.

Quote Maremia Thu 11-Sept-25 15:14:05
And his headline today is approval from the voting public.

Certainly no surprise

And his headline today is approval from the voting public.

He certainly hit the headlines with his rat emoji

Oreo

foxie48

Tbh I'm not surprised that increasingly Jews are stating that they don't support what is happening in Gaza. IMO it's become impossible for anyone to defend the actions of the Israeli government even if you are Jewish.

Nope, it isn’t.

Yes you are correct, Smotrich, Ben-Givr and their extreme right wing followers are very happy to see death, destruction and starvation in Gaza. In fact they applaud it.

Anniebach

Quote Maremia Thu 11-Sept-25 09:32:54
Meanwhile in the UK, Gary Linekar believes his success at the TV awards, voted by the public, was because he spoke out.
.
There is a big difference AnnieB between 'moving people to a safe place' and moving them away from where they have lived for generations at gunpoint. The latter is the reality...move or you die.

He spoke out ? with using rat emoji in a tweet ? he won with a public vote for an antisemitism tweet

I’m pretty sure that the people who voted for him were as unaware as I was that a rat symbol is antisemitic ( when I do think of rats I think of Banksy). And let’s not forget that if it wasn’t for Lineker we wouldn’t have the excellent well balanced The Rest is Politics, the most popular podcast in the country and listened to thought the world.