Unfolding Genocide

Oreo

Yes, disarmed by the actions of Israel nothing to do with anyone in Lebanon.
There are Zionists in the government but not those who have the final say, and there is no genocide or ethnic cleansing just a determination to root out hamas members.You don’t give warnings to move if you want to kill everybody.

Herzl's original definition of Zionism was “a national home for the Jewish people secured by public law.” Personally, I don't have a problem with that (although I know many Palestinians do).

The issue is that there are a couple of extreme megalomaniacs in the government and Netanyahu depends on them to stay in power, so they do have the final say.

Israel is well aware of the condemnation by so many. Also know that Trump does not like the killing of innocent people.
Over 62000 Palestinians have been slaughtered and the world is looking on.
Israel wants the people of Gaza city
to move to the south into camps which will be guarded by the IDF.

Will Hamas stay to be killed or will they have already left.

Six million Jews were slaughtered in Europe 1941 - 1945, years leading to this they were persecuted, the world watched

Oreo

Yes, disarmed by the actions of Israel nothing to do with anyone in Lebanon.
There are Zionists in the government but not those who have the final say, and there is no genocide or ethnic cleansing just a determination to root out hamas members.You don’t give warnings to move if you want to kill everybody.

Of course it was Israel.

Both Ben Gvir and Smotrich are religious Zionists and recognised as terrorist by other states and indeed by the Israeli secret service.

They hold the key to Netanyahus existence as Prime Minister.

Babs03

JohnnyMo

AFAUI the population of Gaza is still increasing, so 62,000 dead does not equate to genocide.

That’s ok looks like the IDF are hell bent upon upping the death toll to meet your particular standards when it comes to genocide.

It's a war,easily stopped if Hamas handed over the hostages they are starving to death.

Anniebach

Israel is well aware of the condemnation by so many. Also know that Trump does not like the killing of innocent people.
Over 62000 Palestinians have been slaughtered and the world is looking on.
Israel wants the people of Gaza city
to move to the south into camps which will be guarded by the IDF.

Will Hamas stay to be killed or will they have already left.

Six million Jews were slaughtered in Europe 1941 - 1945, years leading to this they were persecuted, the world watched

Yes the world watched Annie, though maybe not on the scale that they can today, back then it was easier to ignore the inhumanities committed against the Jewish people because there wasn’t a live feed of news about what was happening. Still, people knew about it, and the stain this leaves upon European history will never wipe clean.
However, in light of this surely it should make us determined to never let this happen to any innocent civilians ever again rather than hardening our hearts against what is happening in plain sight because maybe, just as for centuries some Europeans openly disliked Jews simply for being Jewish, that is now happening to Muslims, with deeply entrenched prejudices making them harden their stance towards their suffering.

The concentration camp is beginning to come together.

2000000 people eventually locked into an area which before the war held just 172000 people.

My question is

What then?

Freya5

Babs03

JohnnyMo

AFAUI the population of Gaza is still increasing, so 62,000 dead does not equate to genocide.

That’s ok looks like the IDF are hell bent upon upping the death toll to meet your particular standards when it comes to genocide.

It's a war,easily stopped if Hamas handed over the hostages they are starving to death.

So where would that leave the surviving Hamas fighters? What bargaining tool would they have left? From their point of view, if they're going to be killed anyway, they might as well take the hostages with them.

Babs03

Anniebach

Israel is well aware of the condemnation by so many. Also know that Trump does not like the killing of innocent people.
Over 62000 Palestinians have been slaughtered and the world is looking on.
Israel wants the people of Gaza city
to move to the south into camps which will be guarded by the IDF.

Will Hamas stay to be killed or will they have already left.

Six million Jews were slaughtered in Europe 1941 - 1945, years leading to this they were persecuted, the world watched

Yes the world watched Annie, though maybe not on the scale that they can today, back then it was easier to ignore the inhumanities committed against the Jewish people because there wasn’t a live feed of news about what was happening. Still, people knew about it, and the stain this leaves upon European history will never wipe clean.
However, in light of this surely it should make us determined to never let this happen to any innocent civilians ever again rather than hardening our hearts against what is happening in plain sight because maybe, just as for centuries some Europeans openly disliked Jews simply for being Jewish, that is now happening to Muslims, with deeply entrenched prejudices making them harden their stance towards their suffering.

I'm afraid lesson haven't been learnt. There was a time when I optimistically hoped they had, but I was wrong.

growstuff Thu 21-Aug-25 09:01:51
Freya5
Babs03
JohnnyMo
AFAUI the population of Gaza is still increasing, so 62,000 dead does not equate to genocide.
That’s ok looks like the IDF are hell bent upon upping the death toll to meet your particular standards when it comes to genocide.
It's a war,easily stopped if Hamas handed over the hostages they are starving to death.
So where would that leave the surviving Hamas fighters? What bargaining tool would they have left? From their point of view, if they're going to be killed anyway, they might as well take the hostages with them.

Very poor defence of terrorists But it’s your belief and you certainly defend them

Nobody is defending terrorists Annie, just trying to have a balanced debate. Not one person so far has said anything that even has a nodding acquaintance with defending Hamas. And keep throwing out these ill founded accusations is only an attempt to stifle the debate.

It's a constant tactic Babs 03

I’m unclear why we have to answer the same question again and again and again, the answer never changes.

Perhaps it doesn’t need to be answered again and again and again?

Eh? Annie I'm not defending terrorists at all! I want to see the surviving hostages released as much as anybody else does. However, I fear it won't happen. Hamas is already defeated as a military force. Remaining fighters will probably be killed - and they know that. If I were in their shoes, there is no incentive to release any hostages. If all the surviving hostages were to be released, what would stop Israel from flattening Gaza and taking over even more of the West Bank? I'm not defending them, but just thinking about the reality.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

So personal.

I fear for the hostages as if they are no longer useful to Hamas they will be killed. I believe Netanyahu knows this too.

growstuff

Eh? Annie I'm not defending terrorists at all! I want to see the surviving hostages released as much as anybody else does. However, I fear it won't happen. Hamas is already defeated as a military force. Remaining fighters will probably be killed - and they know that. If I were in their shoes, there is no incentive to release any hostages. If all the surviving hostages were to be released, what would stop Israel from flattening Gaza and taking over even more of the West Bank? I'm not defending them, but just thinking about the reality.

But this is the sticking point, isn't it.

The reality is that, as long as Hamas continues refuses to release the hostages, Netanyahu can still claim a reason to carry on his destructive path.

He will do that anyway even if the hostages are released. The aim to rid Gaza of all Palestinians will carry on.

Those left will be in camps controlled by the IDF in a very small area.

Why not wait and see what happens? 60000 reservists have been mobilised so Netanyahu is determined to remove Hamas and he’s not hanging around. Once, and if, this happens then the world can complain about the resettlement of Gazans. I think that Netanyahu will provide a just settlement but wait and see.

AGAA4

He will do that anyway even if the hostages are released. The aim to rid Gaza of all Palestinians will carry on.

Those left will be in camps controlled by the IDF in a very small area.

This is the plan and imho has been all along. When Netanyahu got a get out of jail free card and at one and same time could commit genocide against a people he has always wanted to eradicate. What’s not to like??

Quote ronib Thu 21-Aug-25 11:07:04
Why not wait and see what happens? 60000 reservists have been mobilised so Netanyahu is determined to remove Hamas and he’s not hanging around. Once, and if, this happens then the world can complain about the resettlement of Gazans. I think that Netanyahu will provide a just settlement but wait and see.

I hope so and I think so, but I don’t know so

@ronib

‘I think that Netanyahu will provide a just settlement but wait and see.‘

After killing so many civilians, starving them, and now herding them into concentration camps so that he can completely demolish what is left of Gaza, I doubt that the word ‘just’ can ever be applied to Netanyahu, but I would like to inhabit the universe you are presently residing in.

It has been said that the camps will be little better than concentration camps. The Palestinians will be prisoners unable to go anywhere else.
The IDF will control everything. There will be no freedom for those people.

Babs03

@ronib

‘I think that Netanyahu will provide a just settlement but wait and see.‘

After killing so many civilians, starving them, and now herding them into concentration camps so that he can completely demolish what is left of Gaza, I doubt that the word ‘just’ can ever be applied to Netanyahu, but I would like to inhabit the universe you are presently residing in.

That was my immediate reaction as well. How many Gazans, including young children, who no-one can claim are Hamas operatives, will be killed whilst we 'wait and see'.

AGAA4

I fear for the hostages as if they are no longer useful to Hamas they will be killed. I believe Netanyahu knows this too.

That's what I fear. Israel has already killed most of the Hamas leaders. The remaining leaders are in Qatar. Israel will never succeed in killing the ideology behind Hamas. Flattening Gaza City will result in more Palestinian deaths - undoubtedly some IDF soldiers will be killed too. The hostages might very well be killed by Israeli tanks and guns or Hamas might kill them before they're killed themselves. What will Israel do then?