Unfolding Genocide

One question ronib - is there nothing about this conflict that strikes you as disproportionate??

Yes it’s all completely insane. We need to avoid getting caught up in the spiral. We are not dealing with rational or sane people.

True ronib so true

When Hamas went and horrifically murdered 1200 innocent people I was horrified and could not think of anything much worse but after seeing what the Israelis are doing I can now. Killing tens of thousands of innocent people, targeting children trying to get food and reporters so the world can not see what they are doing.

I have seen photos of aid supplied by Israel and blocked from distribution by Hamas.

Yes, I can cope with two words ronib but I was wondering if there was one that would be more palatable to those who disagree that Israel is committing genocide, and it looks as if there isn't.

I agree with you that we are not dealing with rational and sane people and that includes Netanyahu and his supporters.

I haven't seen those photo's ronib, where did you see them?

As for getting caught up in this spiral if that means reiterating our disgust at what is happening in Gaza, I agree. If that means sending in aid I agree and if that means refusing to sell arms to Israel, I agree.

If that means condoning Israel by being silent, not sending in aid and continuing to sell arms, I absolutely totally disagree.

As for not getting caught up in this spiral ....

The photo was shown in a presentation by Netanyahu- £2 million in aid piled up into lorries going nowhere. I guess you can say it was fabricated but how do we know either way? Hamas does seem to have good pr. Smileless2012
I can remember weeping over Biafra and a bit of me always will.
I don’t know if there ever will be peace in Israel/Palestine. The political will just isn’t there. It’s not in the gift of the Uk to influence Israel and Hamas or to broker a peace. No matter how much we wish it.

We don't know whether or not it was fabricated ronib but if it was genuine, why were Hamas able to be photographed blocking aid without being targeted and shot by the IDF, who don't appear to have any problem shooting Palestinians queuing for food?

I know it isn't ^in the gift of the UK to influence Israel and Hamas^; I'm not talking about influencing, I'm talking about our actions as small as they maybe leaving Israel in no doubt, that we abhor what they are doing.

But for me, Hamas also needs to understand the horror of their actions.
How else can there be any progress? Israel is never going to accept a situation where its young can be abducted and killed at a festival again.
I can’t remember the details of where the lorries were left.

The point is that when it comes to Israeli treatment of people under it’s care, there must be a principle that indicates to the Jewish people that they (the government)has gone too far - otherwise the unwillingness to criticise suggests that the Israeli government is infallible and that is a ridiculous place in which
to find oneself.

They should ask themselves these questions.

How many Palestinians does Israel have to kill that is sufficient?

How many Palestinians prisoners does Israel have to capture, torture snd sexually abuse with impunity before we s knowledge the right of international courts to judge Israeli leaders on trial?

How long must West Bank Palestinians live under military law before you stop calling Israel a democracy?

How many years must Israel live in an apartheid before you question the principle that Jews alone must rule.

Answer these questions and with luck a principle can be established.

ronib

But for me, Hamas also needs to understand the horror of their actions.
How else can there be any progress? Israel is never going to accept a situation where its young can be abducted and killed at a festival again.
I can’t remember the details of where the lorries were left.

I agree that Hamas have to understand the horror of their actions, however, that should not include killing so many tens of thousands of innocent civilians, a third of whom are children and babies, the Israeli government has to respect the sanctity of life of civilians, and do their utmost to make sure that they have food, water, and a safe place to shelter, or safe routes out of danger.
This is enshrined in international law. I cannot see that the Israeli government has done this in any shape or form. And by the laws of mathematical probability many of those killed by the IDF were not being used as human shields by Hamas, with 62,000 dead that is impossible. And as the numbers increase so does the increasing realisation by western allies that the Israeli government are hell bent upon biblical retribution, not upon finding a peaceful solution to this.

WWM, good post.

‘We don't know whether or not it was fabricated ronib but if it was genuine, why were Hamas able to be photographed blocking aid without being targeted and shot by the IDF, who don't appear to have any problem shooting Palestinians queuing for food?’

Well said Smileless.

The photo I saw showed a line of lorries carrying £2 million in food aid from Israel abandoned in a line at some point. No one was injured or shown.

It's Israel that have been stopping the lorries. UN workers have said they wait for permission from Israel to take aid.
Why would Hamas stop the aid when their own people need it?

You posted ronib that you'd seen a photo showing aid supplied by Israel being blocked from distribution by Hamas. If no one appeared in the photo, how on earth can it be claimed that this was because of Hamas?

The question to ask is - has Israel lifted the blockade.

To which the answer is - no.

So why would it let in the lorries.

Hamas are capable of many things but I doubt very much they will be hampering the distribution of aid which benefits themselves as well as civilians. Indeed Hamas agreed to ceasefires in the past on the condition that aid could be delivered safely.
Starvation has definitely been weaponised by Netanyahu as a means to kill more civilians or push them to leave when allowed because they desperately need food and medical care.

The photo was taken at the Kerem Sholem aid crossing in Gaza. Israel had sent aid.

Quote AGAA4 Thu 14-Aug-25 08:14:45
It's Israel that have been stopping the lorries. UN workers have said they wait for permission from Israel to take aid.
Why would Hamas stop the aid when their own people need it

Why would they build tunnels under hospitals and schools and hide in them ?

That doesn't support the claim that distribution was blocked by Hamas ronib.

ronib

The photo was taken at the Kerem Sholem aid crossing in Gaza. Israel had sent aid.

Yes I know ronib, trucks of aid are stuck, unable to be safely delivered because the IDF are opening fire on the trucks and the people queuing for aid. Has happened too many times now for it not to be a strategy.

I’ve been reading about the argument of “human shields” that Israel has used as an excuse for killing 10s of thousands of civilians - claiming that Hamas is using them as human shields

So this is what I found.

Under international law, using civilians as human shields means forcing them to live alongside military targets.

It doesn’t mean fighting in an area that just happens to have civilians around.

Hamas does the latter. It fights from within Gaza’s population, thus putting civilians at risk.

That is what insurgent groups do. Hamas is in no sense an outlier in this.

In fact conventional armies often operate near civilians.

So - because such intermingling is common, international law is clear

civilians do not become fair game just because there are fighters nearby

The presence of fighters in an area “shall not release the Parties to the conflict from their legal obligations with respect to the civilian population”

One key obligation is

Proportionality.

“Loss of civilian life (cannot be) excessivein relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated.

Israel’s assault became excessive when on Oct9th it turned off food and electricity to everyone in Gaza.

Also several times the amount of aid will be needed over the next few weeks to avoid many more deaths.