Will Trump really support Ukraine at meeting with Putin?

Listening to trip.

I think that they are right when they say that Zelenskii must insist that there is no media circus before the meeting.

Whitewavemark2

Listening to trip.

I think that they are right when they say that Zelenskii must insist that there is no media circus before the meeting.

Absolutely agree.

Also, the meeting should be conducted in the participants’ first language, with interpreters.

During the previous WH meeting Zelenskyy was at a distinct disadvantage because it was conducted in his third language!

It will be interesting to see what actually happens.

Wwm2 interesting. International law and the UN - what good have they done in this conflict or in any others? They are totally ineffective.

LizzieDrip

Whitewavemark2

Listening to trip.

I think that they are right when they say that Zelenskii must insist that there is no media circus before the meeting.

Absolutely agree.

Also, the meeting should be conducted in the participants’ first language, with interpreters.

During the previous WH meeting Zelenskyy was at a distinct disadvantage because it was conducted in his third language!

It will be interesting to see what actually happens.

What AC and RS are saying is that in fact Putin is in a very weak position. His economy is going down the pan, he has lost a lot of allies and if we firmed up the sanctions and supported Zelenskii with the appropriate where with all, then he would be done for.

But Putin constantly - as we have seen- snatches victory from the jaws of defeat and in my opinion it can’t mean anything other than what he’s got on Trump.

ronib

Wwm2 interesting. International law and the UN - what good have they done in this conflict or in any others? They are totally ineffective.

A total waste of time when it comes to ending conflict, also for bringing war criminals to justice, these war leaders are putting their lives on the line less than troops they command ICJ and international law means nothing, the only thing that matters is winning.

That is what we all operate under!

NATO for a start!

Europe is under existential threat from Putin - make absolutely no mistake about that and without the rule of law under which all the countries operate under until you get outliers like Putin and Netanyahu - then that will be when NATO will be our defence.

I realise that Wwm2 wrote NATO and not the UN. So thinking about NATO, aren’t they currently stoking the fires to encourage Ukraine to membership? Much to Putin’s horror which will only encourage further escalation and deaths.

Europe must put more pressure onto Trump..

The point is that Trump could destroy Russia’s economy overnight - give the 300bn frozen assets to Ukraine and stop Russia in its tracks.

But he clearly doesn’t want to.

Why?

Whitewavemark2
I think we can all guess!

What is useful to remember is just how small Russia is.

Their economy is only the size of Spain, so you can see how difficult it will be for Putin to continue this war long term.

The west needs to pile in.

The job would be so easily done.

What would be more useful is to check your facts wwm2

Our PM has made a statement saying that the talks have brought peace between Russia and Ukraine closer than ever.

Also several heads of European countries and our PM have made a joint statement in a similar vein.

I imagine they know more than the Trip presenters.

GrannyGravy13

Our PM has made a statement saying that the talks have brought peace between Russia and Ukraine closer than ever.

Also several heads of European countries and our PM have made a joint statement in a similar vein.

I imagine they know more than the Trip presenters.

I think if you want to interpret what europe is saying is that “thank good we persuaded Trump to not make a deal without consulting us”

There is no peace nor unless much more pressure is put onto Putin will there be one.

Putin at present has absolutely no reason to agree to peace.

Ronib I am struggling to understand what your POV actually is, on one hand you don't like wars on the other you seem to be saying if a big country sees strategic advantage in invading another country, then that's perfectly OK. Can I also correct you with regard to Ukraine and NATO. NATO is not "stoking" anything, it is Ukraine who wants to join NATO
"Ukraine joined NATO's Partnership for Peace in 1994 and the NATO-Ukraine Commission in 1997, then agreed to the NATO-Ukraine Action Plan in 2002 and entered into NATO's Intensified Dialogue program in 2005. In 2010, during the presidency of Viktor Yanukovych, the Ukrainian parliament voted to abandon the goal of NATO membership and re-affirm Ukraine's neutral status, while continuing its co-operation with NATO.[3] In the February 2014 Ukrainian Revolution, Ukraine's parliament voted to remove Yanukovych, but the new government did not seek to change its neutral status.[4][5][6] Russia then occupied and annexed Crimea, and in August 2014 Russia's military invaded eastern Ukraine to support its separatist proxies. Because of this, in December 2014 Ukraine's parliament voted to end its neutral status,[7] and in 2018 it voted to enshrine the goal of NATO membership in the Constitution.[8][9]" WIKI

ronib

What would be more useful is to check your facts wwm2

I don’t understand your need to promote a pro Russia rhetoric ronib. Ukraine was a country hundreds of years before the Russian revolution, called different names, under different empires. I don’t think you understand the concept of sovereignty at all, even in the context of the UK.

Listening and reading - it seems that Trump has lost the benefit of the doubt in his ability to deal with Putin.

An overwhelming majority of the USA including maga now see Putin as the bad guy and in turn support ukraine.

If trump is sensible he will allow punitive sanctions that are set up to be enforced and to revisit the 300 BN assets. The republicans are up for this.

The problem is why isn’t Trump?

talks have brought peace between Russia and Ukraine closer than ever!!! What a load of BS. Do KS and other heads of European countries think we're all stupid?

It's about time we and the rest of Europe stopped kowtowing to Trump whose kowtpowing to Putin.

Whitewavemark2

So Trump is now looking much weakened, both visually (did anyone notice that as he came down the steps from the plane?) and politically.

There is a large section of the Republican Party which is ready to push back against Trump.

It has a huge package of sanction against Russia ready to be signed off, and it is very ready to support both NATO and Ukraine.

Let’s hope they prevail.

I’m not quite sure what you are saying here.

If you are saying that a lot of Republican want more action against Russia - there are plenty of hawks amongst those ranks would be thinking that way, mostly involved in the arms industries that will benefit.

Sanctions are a possibility and will hurt Russia, BUT if Europe does decide to escalate the war Putin is likely to use that to threaten Nuclear escalation, are we willing to call his bluff on that.

Today we had breakfast with my brother in law who lives in US and a staunch Democrat, normally hasn’t got a good word for him, even he accepts that Trump has done his best to find peace. It’s just not a big issue in the US and they certainly don’t want to start a war over Ukraine, Trumps advisors will be telling him and others don’t escalate this

Putin's been threatening Nuclear escalation since the beginning of the war because IMO that's all it is; a threat. To do so would be suicide for Russia.

If the war ends it will probably be the end of Putin's reign and like Netanyahu that's all he really cares about.

Smileless2012

Putin's been threatening Nuclear escalation since the beginning of the war because IMO that's all it is; a threat. To do so would be suicide for Russia.

If the war ends it will probably be the end of Putin's reign and like Netanyahu that's all he really cares about.

Exactly so.

We have only a glimpse of the situation in Ukraine. The West seems incapable of trying to see why Russia has gone along this path. I am not convinced that Ukraine has thought this through - this is a war they can’t win. They need to negotiate a ceasefire and deal rather than continue to kill their own people. What is the stumbling block? We’re not given this information in any clear sense.

David49

Whitewavemark2

So Trump is now looking much weakened, both visually (did anyone notice that as he came down the steps from the plane?) and politically.

There is a large section of the Republican Party which is ready to push back against Trump.

It has a huge package of sanction against Russia ready to be signed off, and it is very ready to support both NATO and Ukraine.

Let’s hope they prevail.

I’m not quite sure what you are saying here.

If you are saying that a lot of Republican want more action against Russia - there are plenty of hawks amongst those ranks would be thinking that way, mostly involved in the arms industries that will benefit.

Sanctions are a possibility and will hurt Russia, BUT if Europe does decide to escalate the war Putin is likely to use that to threaten Nuclear escalation, are we willing to call his bluff on that.

Today we had breakfast with my brother in law who lives in US and a staunch Democrat, normally hasn’t got a good word for him, even he accepts that Trump has done his best to find peace. It’s just not a big issue in the US and they certainly don’t want to start a war over Ukraine, Trumps advisors will be telling him and others don’t escalate this

What I am saying is that the vast majority of the USA now, including most republicans have concluded that Trump has failed (although it won’t be said) and that strength with sanctions etc is the only way forward.

Trump failed for a number of reasons.

First he singularly failed to prepare for the summit in any way.

He constantly underestimates Putin

His confidence in his ability to get a deal is totally misplaced

His admiration for leaders he sees as “strong” is a real weakness.

And lastly - what the hades has Putin got on Trump?

T rump has definitely not done the best he could - far from it.

ronib

We have only a glimpse of the situation in Ukraine. The West seems incapable of trying to see why Russia has gone along this path. I am not convinced that Ukraine has thought this through - this is a war they can’t win. They need to negotiate a ceasefire and deal rather than continue to kill their own people. What is the stumbling block? We’re not given this information in any clear sense.

Well let’s see

Ukraine never wanted not started this war.

It is pretty clear to most commentators why Putin started the war

Ukraine would negotiate a ceasefire tomorrow, but will for a number of reasons not meet Putin’s demands, amongst which is the release of Ukrainian land, which is against their constitution.

All seems a bit vague to me …. In the circumstances there are more important issues than the Ukrainian constitution!*wwm2*. Like stop bombing innocent people.

Stop bombing innocent people Russia.

I couldn’t agree more.