Ricky Jones

Casdon

I think there’s a difference between the correct judicial decision in accord with the law being made and respected for the law being upheld, and peoples views about whether the law is actually correct or not.

Yes, I know what you mean.
Having a good defence lawyer helps tho and the judge taking into account your previous behaviour and ‘good name’.
So does acting remorsefully.

Sometimes the law is an ass.🐴

Apparently he is no longer a Labour Councillor, but an Independent, is suspended and is being investigated by the Labour Party.
But that does not explain why he was given such a lenient sentence, or why Lucy Connolly is apparently denied privileges in prison she is entitled to in respect of her sentence.

Casdon

How can anybody make such serious accusations about the British judicial system when they know sweet fa about the detail of the individual case? Anarchy will rule this country soon if people have such little respect for the law. Judges and juries make many decisions I don’t agree with, but that does not mean I think they are corrupt or politically biased.

Sorry, but justice is not always served.

There have been so many cases of miscarriages of justice and there must be many cases where the guilty walk free or where juries cannot set aside their prejudices. They are not infallible.

eazybee

Apparently he is no longer a Labour Councillor, but an Independent, is suspended and is being investigated by the Labour Party.
But that does not explain why he was given such a lenient sentence, or why Lucy Connolly is apparently denied privileges in prison she is entitled to in respect of her sentence.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he was given any sentence. He was found not guilty. Lucy Connolly's case didn't go to jury; she pleaded guilty.

Like it or not, that's the way the system works Lucy Connolly was guilty in the eyes of the law because she herself said she was.

Ricky Jones couldn't be given any sentence because a jury found him not guilty.

That's not "two tier justice". It's about somebody knowing he was more likely to have a fair hearing in front of a jury and Connolly not realising that if she were to plead guilty, the judge would have to accept that and sentence her according to the guidelines.

There must be some reason that Lucy Connolly is being denied privileges.

GrannyGravy13

growstuff I think it’s irrelevant who he was referring to and/or advocating for their throats to be cut.

The video footage is still out there for all and sundry to see.

Inciting violence is just that, incitement to commit a crime/

Don't shoot the messenger!

Allira

Casdon

How can anybody make such serious accusations about the British judicial system when they know sweet fa about the detail of the individual case? Anarchy will rule this country soon if people have such little respect for the law. Judges and juries make many decisions I don’t agree with, but that does not mean I think they are corrupt or politically biased.

Sorry, but justice is not always served.

There have been so many cases of miscarriages of justice and there must be many cases where the guilty walk free or where juries cannot set aside their prejudices. They are not infallible.

Agreed.
An immigrant who is a knife wielding drug dealer and sexually assaulted a young girl has just been allowed to stay in the UK by a judge who was on the board of a pro-asylum charity!

I have no faith in our judicial system.

Primrose53

Allira

Casdon

How can anybody make such serious accusations about the British judicial system when they know sweet fa about the detail of the individual case? Anarchy will rule this country soon if people have such little respect for the law. Judges and juries make many decisions I don’t agree with, but that does not mean I think they are corrupt or politically biased.

Sorry, but justice is not always served.

There have been so many cases of miscarriages of justice and there must be many cases where the guilty walk free or where juries cannot set aside their prejudices. They are not infallible.

Agreed.
An immigrant who is a knife wielding drug dealer and sexually assaulted a young girl has just been allowed to stay in the UK by a judge who was on the board of a pro-asylum charity!

I have no faith in our judicial system.

Would you rather have anarchy or maybe some kind of autocracy with absolutely no involvement of ordinary people? You obviously live in the wrong country Primrose53.

I'm sure many people on GN have done jury service.

I served on a jury about 20 years ago and I'm convinced we let a guilty man go free. His reaction when the verdict was announced suggested that he couldn't believe his luck.

It took us some time to reach the verdict. The defendant didn't seem to be a very likeable person, but in all honesty, there were serious doubts about the prosecution case. In the UK, people are innocent until proved guilty and we just couldn't prove him guilty.

What I find astonishing is that the evidence is out there, it has been viewed millions of times.

Plead not guilty, get yourself a fancy lawyer, and hey ho you walk free…

The law is an ass, especially if you know a good jockey

I’m sure plenty of guilty people are found innocent - not because they are ( in many cases ) but because there’s just not enough evidence to prove their guilt beyond reasonable doubt.
But in this case it’s unbelievable that he was found not guilty - the evidence is there for all to see.
I wonder what the verdict would have been if Tommy Robinson had said and done the exact same thing.
I wonder……..

And this verdict will undoubtedly lead to more division.

When I worked with offenders, it was a truth amongst ‘the regulars’ , always plead not guilty. Then get your case moved from the Magistrates Court to the Crown Court. There, not guilty findings or lesser sentences were believed more likely.

Tell the truth and shame the Devil? Errr No! Tell the truth, you go to prison. Tell an untruth, regardless of evidence, you get off scott free. Not much of an example to young people?!

Kandinsky is correct to conclude the guilty can have a not guilty finding when the jury can’t reach Guilty beyond reasonable doubt.
Not a perfect system but it’s the best we have

Jaberwok. I was not suggesting that was the advice from youth or probation staff. It was ‘the truth’ as understood by repeat offenders.

Kandinsky

And this verdict will undoubtedly lead to more division.

Unfortunately I fear that you are correct.

eazybee

Apparently he is no longer a Labour Councillor, but an Independent, is suspended and is being investigated by the Labour Party.
But that does not explain why he was given such a lenient sentence, or why Lucy Connolly is apparently denied privileges in prison she is entitled to in respect of her sentence.

He wasn’t given a lenient sentence, or any kind of sentence, he was found not guilty.

Pleading guilty you will obviously be found guilty, but surely the punishment far exceeds the crime? The lady withdrew her comment and apologised immediately. Six months suspended would have been more appropriate, a fine, or both; community service perhaps? But 2 1/2 years in prison is excessive in the extreme. This alone could cost Labour the next election, never mind migration!

growstuff

Primrose53

Allira

Casdon

How can anybody make such serious accusations about the British judicial system when they know sweet fa about the detail of the individual case? Anarchy will rule this country soon if people have such little respect for the law. Judges and juries make many decisions I don’t agree with, but that does not mean I think they are corrupt or politically biased.

Sorry, but justice is not always served.

There have been so many cases of miscarriages of justice and there must be many cases where the guilty walk free or where juries cannot set aside their prejudices. They are not infallible.

Agreed.
An immigrant who is a knife wielding drug dealer and sexually assaulted a young girl has just been allowed to stay in the UK by a judge who was on the board of a pro-asylum charity!

I have no faith in our judicial system.

Would you rather have anarchy or maybe some kind of autocracy with absolutely no involvement of ordinary people? You obviously live in the wrong country Primrose53.

Sorry, but that is unfair.

The prejudices of the jury may come into play, jurors can be very young and clever barristers can manipulate the minds f the jury.
At least now evidence is available to the defence as well as the prosecution after several miscarriages of justice years ago, but, even so, evidence may not always be presented which could clear a defendant.

Jaberwok

Pleading guilty you will obviously be found guilty, but surely the punishment far exceeds the crime? The lady withdrew her comment and apologised immediately. Six months suspended would have been more appropriate, a fine, or both; community service perhaps? But 2 1/2 years in prison is excessive in the extreme. This alone could cost Labour the next election, never mind migration!

I thought that way until I read the Judge’s comments on the case, there were numerous instances of racist posts on Twitter and other social media platforms, it was not a one off tweet. She joked that if the police came after her she would play the mental health card. How could it cost Labour the next election, the CPS decides whether or not to prosecute and there are sentencing guidelines to assist when sentencing.

Allira

growstuff

Primrose53

Allira

Casdon

How can anybody make such serious accusations about the British judicial system when they know sweet fa about the detail of the individual case? Anarchy will rule this country soon if people have such little respect for the law. Judges and juries make many decisions I don’t agree with, but that does not mean I think they are corrupt or politically biased.

Sorry, but justice is not always served.

There have been so many cases of miscarriages of justice and there must be many cases where the guilty walk free or where juries cannot set aside their prejudices. They are not infallible.

Agreed.
An immigrant who is a knife wielding drug dealer and sexually assaulted a young girl has just been allowed to stay in the UK by a judge who was on the board of a pro-asylum charity!

I have no faith in our judicial system.

Would you rather have anarchy or maybe some kind of autocracy with absolutely no involvement of ordinary people? You obviously live in the wrong country Primrose53.

Sorry, but that is unfair.

The prejudices of the jury may come into play, jurors can be very young and clever barristers can manipulate the minds f the jury.
At least now evidence is available to the defence as well as the prosecution after several miscarriages of justice years ago, but, even so, evidence may not always be presented which could clear a defendant.

Would you prefer to abolish the jury system?

I understand that in his summing up, the judge can sometimes lead the jury. Perhaps this happened in this case, as many of our judges seem to be operating a two tier justice system

Jane43

Jaberwok

Pleading guilty you will obviously be found guilty, but surely the punishment far exceeds the crime? The lady withdrew her comment and apologised immediately. Six months suspended would have been more appropriate, a fine, or both; community service perhaps? But 2 1/2 years in prison is excessive in the extreme. This alone could cost Labour the next election, never mind migration!

I thought that way until I read the Judge’s comments on the case, there were numerous instances of racist posts on Twitter and other social media platforms, it was not a one off tweet. She joked that if the police came after her she would play the mental health card. How could it cost Labour the next election, the CPS decides whether or not to prosecute and there are sentencing guidelines to assist when sentencing.

Yes, that's my understanding too. It wasn't a one-off tweet, although she withdrew it after a few hours when she realised the reaction. Other tweets showed that it wasn't just a momentary over-reaction - it reflected her genuinely held beliefs. The follow-up tweets about intending to play the mental health card were also taken as evidence that she knew exactly what she was writing. The appeal failed because there was no evidence of mental illness or lack of intelligence. The verdict stood that Lucy Connolly knew exactly what she was writing, meant it, but thought she might be able to squirm out of being found guilty by claiming mental illness. There was also the issue that her tweet had been seen by thousands of people before it was withdrawn, including by somebody who had retweeted it and had already been sentenced. Crucially, there had been attempts to burn down buildings with people in them and the tweet could have encouraged that.

FWIW I think Lucy Connolly's sentence was fair - she pleaded guilty, so there was no question of her innocence. Arguably, she was badly advised and should not have admitted guilt and should have pushed for a jury trial. IMO Ricky Jones was also guilty, but the jury decided otherwise - I don't know enough details about the defence case to know how that verdict was decided.

In both cases the proper legal systems were used, so talk of "two tier" justice is nonsense. The UK legal system isn't perfect, but it's the best we have and at least there are some safeguards built into it. At least we don't have lynching or execution based on emotional reactions (although I think some people like it). The twitter storm caused by the Ricky Jones case is once again mostly lies and racist.

sundowngirl

I understand that in his summing up, the judge can sometimes lead the jury. Perhaps this happened in this case, as many of our judges seem to be operating a two tier justice system

That's speculation and the suggestion that there is a two tier justice system is nonsense.