Would you fly a flag for your country?

I believe the use of the English/British flags at the moment is not one of celebration and appreciation but one of confrontation. It is no accident that this phenomenon has arisen when there is a growing tide of animosity directed at asylum seekers, (and in fact sometimes those who, because of their appearance, are perceived to be asylum seekers). This animosity gleefully stirred up by some people whose mask of patriotism sometimes hides a record of violence.

It has a created a most unpleasant atmosphere in many parts of the country and has made many people who have lived here for decades feel uneasy and unwelcome. If we want Britain to thrive - and, let's face it, it is one awful mess at the moment after 14 years of neglect and corruption - everybody must feel they are part of the effort. Demonising particular groups will only make them feel that they owe no allegiance to a country that sees them as unwelcome outsiders and openly shows hostility towards them.

When we were out yesterday I was horrified to see two Union flags upsidedown - one was hung from a crane, one was a paper flag stuck to a building. I actually tried to peel the paper one off (there were two others there as well) but couldn't. A young man asked me what I was doing and I told him it was upside down. He said 'I didn't know it could be upside down. Isn't it the same both ways?' I explained how he could tell and he admitted that he didn't even know how the Union flag was made up.

Far from showing respect for our country I think many of these flags have now just become bits of coloured material and paper - it may not have been the intention but any cause is pretty much lost when ignorance jumps on board.

I am not addressing it to anyone really. I loathe the pride flag these days but think people can fly it if they wish and I try not to assume that everyone who displays it is a misogynist. It makes me uneasy but I think people have the right to fly it.

Eloethan
It has a created a most unpleasant atmosphere in many parts of the country and has made many people who have lived here for decades feel uneasy and unwelcome.
I’ve already posted to the effect that some flag waving has done exactly what you say. But some are genuinely waving flags to show they’re proud to be part of a group-England in one case, whilst others use flags with the effect that you mention above.

I'll say it again - there is more than one type of pride.

I'll also add that flags, nor pride in them one way or the other, are not the problem. They are a consequences of people believing there are simplistic answers to difficult problems.

What is important? Why are living standards dropping? The working class has lost so much, getting poorer and poorer. The government is poorer. The middle-incomes are going the same way. Why blame a person whose life was even worse? Was it his/her job to make our lives better? No, they have been hit even worse than we have, certainly than those in Europe and the UK.

Whose job is it to improve things? Where has the money sucked from the poor, the government and, more slowly, the middle-income gone? Which group has aided and abetted this? That is the issue and the more you ignore the pace of wealth inequality the more it's going to continue and the more many will loose all they have, possibly including their lives.

I think anyone has a right to fly flags.

What I find troubling is that, much as language can be co-opted and mangled to suit an agenda, so can symbols. Someone flying a Pride flag may be doing so to signify support for gay rights, or they may be using it (with or without adaptations) to mean that there is no such thing as being gay, and there is only same-gender attraction (whatever that means). Similarly someone flying an England flag may be coming from a 'Village Green Preservation Society' perspective, but they may also be doing it to show that they want to 'Stop The Boats'. The confusion, IMO, is often deliberate, and therefore concerning.

I hope that the tattered flags over motorway bridges will be replaced with fresh ones by the flag fliers. Otherwise it just looks messy.

Parsley3

I hope that the tattered flags over motorway bridges will be replaced with fresh ones by the flag fliers. Otherwise it just looks messy.

Sadly they won't be because they are responding to the dog whistle of racism rather than a genuine desire to show pride in being English. That's why I won't fly a flag, not because I don't have pride in being English/British (I think I got a the gold star) but because it has been co-opted by English nationalists who are racist.

Where has the money sucked from the poor, the government and, more slowly, the middle-income gone? Which group has aided and abetted this? That is the issue and the more you ignore the pace of wealth inequality the more it's going to continue and the more many will loose all they have, possibly including their lives.

We don't always agree, PN, but that is the root cause of our problems and until that is sorted things will only get worse.

The cartoon, which has been circulating for a number of years now, sums up the situation quite accurately. I hope people understand its message.

Parsley3

I hope that the tattered flags over motorway bridges will be replaced with fresh ones by the flag fliers. Otherwise it just looks messy.

I worry more that a flag will fly off and land on a motorists windscreen, causing an accident. Flags on motorway bridges should be removed.

Brilliant cartoon - so true!

MaizieD

^Where has the money sucked from the poor, the government and, more slowly, the middle-income gone? Which group has aided and abetted this? That is the issue and the more you ignore the pace of wealth inequality the more it's going to continue and the more many will loose all they have, possibly including their lives.^

We don't always agree, PN, but that is the root cause of our problems and until that is sorted things will only get worse.

The cartoon, which has been circulating for a number of years now, sums up the situation quite accurately. I hope people understand its message.

Hear, hear👏👏👏

Here's another with a similar theme

Thank you Doodledog - I feel much the same as you.

Oh, image very slow to appear. it might have got lost. Sorry

I hadn't seen it Maizie. The real message summed up in a single image. Thanks for posting it.

Just seen there were more posts. I like the subtlety of the first cartoon, but whatever gets the message over

Here in the north west people have flown flags for decades either St George's cross or union flag. Those of Scottish,Welsh or Irish descent fly there countries flags . Is it now a crime to be be ashamed of your heritage? I am English I was born in England. But I am also a part of the United Kingdom.

The only flag I would fly is a white one. I am of the Oscar Wilde school of thought “Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious” Flags were invented by the ruling class to divide the peasants and create cannon fodder.

MaizieD

Here's another with a similar theme

👍

Sueinkent I think OW said a lot of sensible things, but I like Johnson's line better "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel," Said in 1775 but could still be said today with some truth when you see the likes of Tommy Robinson and his followers waving a flag and telling us it's because they love their country!

Perhaps we should just put those two quotes in an OP with the simple invitation to "discuss"?