Why do things keep getting worse?

In fact Natural England say they never asked for or supported a huge bat cave.

No matter whether they did or didnt.
The issue is that the money got spent on it.

^'There is no evidence that wildlife protections are to blame for planning delays6

Again, not the point.

'Stop the boats' is such a facile attempt to redirect attention away from the very real problems created in the last 20 years, most of which were created by years of Tory government.

That answer does not even merit a proper response.

We have had a amazing 70 years where things improved for the many in our country. That last 70 years have been an economic anomaly in the course of history.

I would, along with Thomas Pikety, dispute that statement.

We had an amazing post war period but the election of Thatcher in 1979 and her adoption of neoliberal economic ideology brought it to an end. The equality gap, which had narrowed, has been widening and the wealthy have been getting exponentially wealthier ever since while poverty is increasing. 20% of our population living below the poverty line is not a statistic to ignore.

Maizie some way back you asked a question and I didn't have time to answer. Really it needs to be addressed to Gary Stevenson so this may help www.youtube.com/watch?v=II1GOhoNpms It's not specifically in answer to your question of course, but you may find some answers.

Otherwise I can only suggest there may be some way to contact him directly. But I'm afraid I don't know what that is.

MaizieD

^We have had a amazing 70 years where things improved for the many in our country. That last 70 years have been an economic anomaly in the course of history.^

I would, along with Thomas Pikety, dispute that statement.

We had an amazing post war period but the election of Thatcher in 1979 and her adoption of neoliberal economic ideology brought it to an end. The equality gap, which had narrowed, has been widening and the wealthy have been getting exponentially wealthier ever since while poverty is increasing. 20% of our population living below the poverty line is not a statistic to ignore.

Has Thomas Pikerty been reading my posts? Wow!

“We have had a amazing 70 years where things improved for the many in our country. That last 70 years have been an economic anomaly in the course of history.”

Yes, the problem is that things have improved beyond our ability to pay for them, we have had to borrow to pay for, even sacrifice economic growth, to meet the demand for more.

fancythat

Most people wont like what I am going to say and that is part of the problem in my opinion.

Bat tunnel - £100 million.

Many many other schemes like that. Too many to mention.
And the majority of people, on GN at least, thought it was perfectly acceptable.

If money is spent on this type of thing, not so much money left for other things.

Ha ha we had one of those over here. Total waste of money and then it was discovered bats weren’t even using it.

Correction. Ours was a bat bridge. Still hopeless and unused by bats.

DaisyAnneReturns

MaizieD

We have had a amazing 70 years where things improved for the many in our country. That last 70 years have been an economic anomaly in the course of history.

I would, along with Thomas Pikety, dispute that statement.

We had an amazing post war period but the election of Thatcher in 1979 and her adoption of neoliberal economic ideology brought it to an end. The equality gap, which had narrowed, has been widening and the wealthy have been getting exponentially wealthier ever since while poverty is increasing. 20% of our population living below the poverty line is not a statistic to ignore.

Has Thomas Pikerty been reading my posts? Wow!

I rather think that Stevenson might have been reading Pikety's book. It was, after all, published in 2011. Stevenson has come on the scene, saying similar things, much later.

Primrose53

fancythat

Most people wont like what I am going to say and that is part of the problem in my opinion.

Bat tunnel - £100 million.

Many many other schemes like that. Too many to mention.
And the majority of people, on GN at least, thought it was perfectly acceptable.

If money is spent on this type of thing, not so much money left for other things.

Ha ha we had one of those over here. Total waste of money and then it was discovered bats weren’t even using it.

If you added up the amount of money that been spent on
environmental and Heritage activity on HS2 you would be astounded, not to mention delays caused.

The final cost is likely to be £100bn for half a white elephant.

David49

Primrose53

fancythat

Most people wont like what I am going to say and that is part of the problem in my opinion.

Bat tunnel - £100 million.

Many many other schemes like that. Too many to mention.
And the majority of people, on GN at least, thought it was perfectly acceptable.

If money is spent on this type of thing, not so much money left for other things.

Ha ha we had one of those over here. Total waste of money and then it was discovered bats weren’t even using it.

If you added up the amount of money that been spent on
environmental and Heritage activity on HS2 you would be astounded, not to mention delays caused.

The final cost is likely to be £100bn for half a white elephant.

The interesting thing, David, is who was in receipt of the money?

It's given a lot of people a great deal of employment, so some of the money will have circulated in the domestic economy, and contributed to GDP. But was there some excessive profiteering in the companies contracted to do the work?

MaizieD

DaisyAnneReturns

MaizieD

We have had a amazing 70 years where things improved for the many in our country. That last 70 years have been an economic anomaly in the course of history.

I would, along with Thomas Pikety, dispute that statement.

We had an amazing post war period but the election of Thatcher in 1979 and her adoption of neoliberal economic ideology brought it to an end. The equality gap, which had narrowed, has been widening and the wealthy have been getting exponentially wealthier ever since while poverty is increasing. 20% of our population living below the poverty line is not a statistic to ignore.

Has Thomas Pikerty been reading my posts? Wow!

I rather think that Stevenson might have been reading Pikety's book. It was, after all, published in 2011. Stevenson has come on the scene, saying similar things, much later.

In a couple of his videos he's mentioned meeting him but I don't know (that's not a negative, I just don't have the information) whether it was one to one or at a group meeting Maizie. I does sound like he has talked with him and he certainly holds him in high esteem. I have seen him use Piketty's graphs on a couple of videos knowing they carry credibility.

Stevenson is interesting in his delight that there are more economists on the internet even if the views are conflicting.

Well, DAR, I have Piketty's book, and I can state categorically that the post WW2 period, up to the 1970s, WRT restraint on wealth and narrowing the inequality, was the best and everything started to go down hill after that. In fact, the French call that period the 'Trente Glorieuses'.

While Piketty doesn't connect the deterioration in equality and the speed at which the wealthy regained what they had lost in that time, and the acceleration in their rate of accumulating more wealth, with the neoliberal economics introduced by Thatcher and Reagan the correlation of the two trends is unmistakeable.

“It's given a lot of people a great deal of employment, so some of the money will have circulated in the domestic economy, and contributed to GDP. But was there some excessive profiteering in the companies contracted to do the work?”

Maisie no doubt it is paying the the wages of a lot of construction workers and research workers but it is not productive activity fir the economy when they could be doing more useful work

As for construction companies they are loving it because HS2 is a “cost plus” project, the more add ons, the longer it takes the more money they make. There is a lot of work locally you would expect the sites to be hive of activity, they're not it’s all snails pace

I’m not trying to justify it, David, just point out that the money didn’t just disappear off the face of the earth. It all went somewhere.

When HS2 was planned the case was made for it improving productivity by increasing rail capacity. There are arguments for and against which will never be resolved, but it went ahead ostensibly on the strength of that case. As the project has been terminated before completion we will never know whether or not it would have improved productivity.

It is certainly obvious that major contractors have run rings round successive governments in vastly inflating the costs, and objections and unplanned route deviations have also added to costs, but poor government control of major works is an entirely separate issue.

MaizieD

I’m not trying to justify it, David, just point out that the money didn’t just disappear off the face of the earth. It all went somewhere.

When HS2 was planned the case was made for it improving productivity by increasing rail capacity. There are arguments for and against which will never be resolved, but it went ahead ostensibly on the strength of that case. As the project has been terminated before completion we will never know whether or not it would have improved productivity.

It is certainly obvious that major contractors have run rings round successive governments in vastly inflating the costs, and objections and unplanned route deviations have also added to costs, but poor government control of major works is an entirely separate issue.

HS2 was a vanity project from day one, as is Heathrow expansion we don’t need more air travel we need less, how anyone justifies air travel while trying to reduce CO2 is a complete mystery.

That’s just your opinion, David.

As I said, others think differently and the truth will never be established because the project has been cut short.

HS2.
If anyone is really interested in how bad it really was, listen and weep.
There are so many jaw dropping tales in this

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002fv89

I’ll try to make time to listen, petra.

I think the original premise was probably correct, but the execution was terrible.

Allira

GoodAfternoonTea

Looking back to when mine were small, if a mother went out to work, you would find a child minder and your little one was safe. They would be registered and perhaps even have their own children. Now, the emphasis seems to be on nursery schools which cost an arm and a leg because they have to meet so many rules and standards. I am not saying the old ways were better, but they did work. Also, the contents and decor in a home are so much hight now. We lived for 9 years with very old stuff and only when we had saved enough did my 60 year old kitchen get replaced. If suggested to the young generation now, they would be horrified if that was expected of them. We did not have a holiday for ten years as we needed every penny to pay the mortgage etc. I could go on. Expectations are different.

Just replaced our 40 year old kitchen, GoodAfternoonTea! It was still ok and probably would have seen us out; the new one isn't such good quality either but it is brighter and fresher.

When we moved into our first house we bought a second-hand table and chairs from a neighbour of my DB for £15. It looked absolutely fine and they said they could deliver it for us. It arrived on a trailer 😁, tied down with rope and a little chunk of the table had broken off. My father did a good job of making a piece to fit and it lasted us for nearly 25 years.

The rich get richer, what the hell do they spend it on. We are too far gone now but look at the Scandinavian countries, great welfare for their people and less of a gap between rich and poor, always appear at the top of happiest countries to live. There is enough money in our economy for everyone it’s just set up so the rich get most of it.

fancythat

^'Stop the boats' is such a facile attempt to redirect attention away from the very real problems created in the last 20 years, most of which were created by years of Tory government.^

That answer does not even merit a proper response.

and that's the problem isn't it? Opinions, half truths, bias, a country in deep trouble and everyone is running around like headless chickens complaining about things they know nothing about, silly little jibes about half built bat caves are a total waste of everyone's time. I avoid GN quite a lot, here I go...... better things to do, enjoy Reform when you are all cajoled by the barrow boy Farage in voting for it.

Granatlast007 I agree with you. I am glad we have the economic ability to up sticks and leave if Reform get in and all their supporters get to ruin the UK. They now are openly talking about deporting 600,000 new citizens. They call it remigration. Next thing will be camps like the USA has. And all this unrest being stirred up at he time Russia is flexing it's muscles. Makes you wonder who is financing Farage and Reform.

Every government I've lived through has imposed the crackpot philosophy of "Jam Tomorrow" on the electorate.

Well, when? I'm 70 and in dodgy health so Starmer had better hurry up!

MaizieD

Well, DAR, I have Piketty's book, and I can state categorically that the post WW2 period, up to the 1970s, WRT restraint on wealth and narrowing the inequality, was the best and everything started to go down hill after that. In fact, the French call that period the 'Trente Glorieuses'.

While Piketty doesn't connect the deterioration in equality and the speed at which the wealthy regained what they had lost in that time, and the acceleration in their rate of accumulating more wealth, with the neoliberal economics introduced by Thatcher and Reagan the correlation of the two trends is unmistakeable.

My thinking is that the 70 years are a curve Maizie. Sharply up as wealth equality grew, 1945 to the '70s (around 25 years). Then more slowly back as wealth inequality grew from the 70s to 2015 (around 45 years).

I'm not sure what your problem is with this, I'm afraid.

MaizieD

I’ll try to make time to listen, petra.

I think the original premise was probably correct, but the execution was terrible.

Another asset lost to the government and financial assets transferred to the wealthy. You could think it was deliberate.