Why do things keep getting worse?

The rich get richer, what the hell do they spend it on. We are too far gone now but look at the Scandinavian countries, great welfare for their people and less of a gap between rich and poor, always appear at the top of happiest countries to live. There is enough money in our economy for everyone it’s just set up so the rich get most of it. (*Bibedybop*)

That's exactly the question Gary Stevens thinks we should be asking. His five stages describe what the rich have done, and will, spend their increasing wealth on.

These are the five stages of the Squeeze Out:

Stage 1: The rich start to accumulate money, they drive asset prices up and they outcompete the working class resources and drive the working class into debt.

Stage 2: The working-class have run out of resources. The can no longer borrow any more. They can no longer spend any more. We get economic depression and a crisis. That's when the government has to step in.

Stage 3: The government increasingly runs out of resources as well. The government too, becomes massively in debt to the rich. (This seems to be roughly where we are now).

Stage 4: The government has no choice but to slowly eviscerate the middle-class. Eventually there is no wealth left other than that held by the rich, and the physical structure of society changes so that it only supports consumption for rich people. At this point almost everybody in the country lives in desperate poverty.

Stage 5: There are no weak hands left to be squeezed out. The rich own everything and the only way they can try to grow their wealth is by paying you to fight in their wars against each other.

I too think we have reached the stage where we need to tax "wealth not work". However, the wealthy will now try to convince you that you too will be taxed under new taxes. It clearly would not be the case.

DaisyAnneReturns

MaizieD

Well, DAR, I have Piketty's book, and I can state categorically that the post WW2 period, up to the 1970s, WRT restraint on wealth and narrowing the inequality, was the best and everything started to go down hill after that. In fact, the French call that period the 'Trente Glorieuses'.

While Piketty doesn't connect the deterioration in equality and the speed at which the wealthy regained what they had lost in that time, and the acceleration in their rate of accumulating more wealth, with the neoliberal economics introduced by Thatcher and Reagan the correlation of the two trends is unmistakeable.

My thinking is that the 70 years are a curve Maizie. Sharply up as wealth equality grew, 1945 to the '70s (around 25 years). Then more slowly back as wealth inequality grew from the 70s to 2015 (around 45 years).

I'm not sure what your problem is with this, I'm afraid.

I think part of my problem is that I don't think in 'curves', but primarily it was the implication that there has been a constant improvement in 'an amazing 70 years'.

If it had been an improvement for all, as it was before the 1980s, I would have agreed, but it just wasn't.

I don't think you're describing a curve, you're describing a line rising to a peak then declining to a trough. IMO curves continue to go up... and 'curve...
Though I have to say the in economics when economists describe two intersecting straight lines as 'curves' the concept does seem to be a bit fuzzy

Jeannied

Because of the idiots who voted Labour

And here we have it - someone who doesn't vote Labour dismissing those who do as "idiots". Just as those who voted for Brexit referred to those to voted against as "Remoaners".

We can have different points of view without being considered "idiots". I think most people who voted Labour were sick of incompetent Truss and self serving Johnson.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Maizie one can agree or disagree with Gary Stevenson's conclusions while recognising that some of us see our self-drawn mental graph as a curve, others see theirs as two straight lines, one going up and one down. I'm really not sure why it's relevant.

No edit button!

“The rich get richer, what the hell do they spend it on. We are too far gone now but look at the Scandinavian countries, great welfare for their people and less of a gap between rich and poor, always appear at the top of happiest countries to live. There is enough money in our economy for everyone it’s just set up so the rich get most of it.”

The UK not Scandinavia they have small populations and are exploiting many more resources, the UK would be doing fine if it had those sorts of populations. If we are to support a growing population we need to exploit far more resources, labour, minerals and technology, currently we are way behind what’s needed.

PamelaJ1

Marmin maybe the post hasn’t had much response because it’s so subjective.
My life is fine. In fact non of my family are doing too badly, all of my siblings are happily married, have enough money to have a reasonable lifestyle and all the next generation have employment and own houses.
This might bring the comment ‘well bully for you’ but I am only pointing out that many many people are in this position. If it wasn’t for the media telling us everything is so awful we would be quite happy.

I can’t think that Mr.Farage will be changing the lives of those that haven’t fared so well, he’s just a bit bored at the moment, his friend in the USA is too busy to have much time for him but he will go off the boil again soon.

If we want , really want, to improve the lot of the less well off then we have to do some heavy lifting.
More taxation has got to be a possibility even if we don’t like it and the government has to prioritise the basics, a decent water and sewerage system for one.
We have got to stop thinking that the Government is responsible for everything. We need to step up and realise that if we keep ignoring our communities then we lose them.
We’ve lost the heart of towns because we shop on line.
Our village halls, Parish councils, Churches are struggling from lack of support, presumably because, not only do, people have busier lives but because they think it’s someone else’s job.
Having said that, the Government have got to stop passing on
our essential services to companies that seem to be able to make money from them. If private companies can run them and pay their shareholders then surely the government could?

I can only judge from the area that I live in but it’s obvious here that the only people who are still taking part in our reasonably small community are old people. Not for want of trying to get younger people involved I assure you.

Gosh what a rant. Sorry!

I agree with most of your post.

My two biggest concerns are the gap between the “haves” and the “have nots” is widening daily and the number of under 25’s not in employment.

Of course Farage can offer Jam yesterday and Jam tomorrow but none today because he is not in power. His main interest in whatever is happening is to get Nigel Farage in front of the cameras or whatever. He is doing a modern day Mosley and using anything that happens to give promises of the wonders of him being in charge. Well dream on, his choice of friends such as Trump should be quite a warning in itself. Now who else do we know who thought he could walk in and annexe other countries and take whatever he wants from them with no right at all . Oh, now let me see - was it Adolf Trump , or Donald Hitler . Oh well something like that . Just look at the bedfellows Farage is ready to jump in with. As to his smirking holding a pint of beer , if he thinks that his photo shoots fool most of us he is mistaken. But see how quickly he backs down when asked exactly how he is going to send all the boat people back immediately!

madeleine45

Of course Farage can offer Jam yesterday and Jam tomorrow but none today because he is not in power. His main interest in whatever is happening is to get Nigel Farage in front of the cameras or whatever. He is doing a modern day Mosley and using anything that happens to give promises of the wonders of him being in charge. Well dream on, his choice of friends such as Trump should be quite a warning in itself. Now who else do we know who thought he could walk in and annexe other countries and take whatever he wants from them with no right at all . Oh, now let me see - was it Adolf Trump , or Donald Hitler . Oh well something like that . Just look at the bedfellows Farage is ready to jump in with. As to his smirking holding a pint of beer , if he thinks that his photo shoots fool most of us he is mistaken. But see how quickly he backs down when asked exactly how he is going to send all the boat people back immediately!

I completely agree. He is Mosley through and through.

The main advantage of Farage is that he has rattled the government. Keep shaking the rattle. This government has such a keen eye on opinion polls, despite its huge parliamentary majority, that it has swallowed the urban myth that Reform will jump from four? seats to holding power. Government by opinion polls is really sad?

ronib

The main advantage of Farage is that he has rattled the government. Keep shaking the rattle. This government has such a keen eye on opinion polls, despite its huge parliamentary majority, that it has swallowed the urban myth that Reform will jump from four? seats to holding power. Government by opinion polls is really sad?

This so called “advantage” is far far outweighed by the hate and division this man and his party cause.

At the moment Cossy Starmer is polling even below Farage. Hate and division applies across the political spectrum.

Cossy

ronib

The main advantage of Farage is that he has rattled the government. Keep shaking the rattle. This government has such a keen eye on opinion polls, despite its huge parliamentary majority, that it has swallowed the urban myth that Reform will jump from four? seats to holding power. Government by opinion polls is really sad?

This so called “advantage” is far far outweighed by the hate and division this man and his party cause.

The sad thing is that he only has this 'advantage' because Labour have been so tin eared and incompetent.

Had they made some very positive and obvious moves towards 'change' that would make things better for the disadvantaged and the only just managing in the UK instead of targeting the elderly and the disabled, refusing to do anything about the disgraceful state of our water companies, refusing to lift the 2 child benefit cap, and blatantly cosying up to big business and the wealthy, Reform might not have had so much discontent to exploit.

And Gareth Thomas Minister for Post Office compensation has been sacked and not replaced!!

ronib

And Gareth Thomas Minister for Post Office compensation has been sacked and not replaced!!

Yes - why?

I started a thread about the ongoing Post Office scandal.

“PamelaJ1
Marmin maybe the post hasn’t had much response because it’s so subjective.”

You reckon?
Maybe next time give the OP a chance before shooting a thread down in flames.
Seems enough members disagreed with your analysis thankfully.

Colls

I think people in the UK have to realise they have voted in a lot of bullies and burks over the last 30+ years and this is the result.
Thatcher said "there is no such thing as society". Well, she succeeded there. Blair and his various privatised agendas, Cameron and the oddities who followed him. Johnson - well, need I say more? Starmer is no socialist to my mind and is just continuing their work.

Follow the money. It's big corporations not countries who rule the world. Parliamentary lobbying is vile and has partially created this. A direct line to government if you can and are willing to pay.
People dislike the BBC but watch GB News!
Follow the money! Who owns GB news?

So just like in the US - and other countries, these self-centered politicians have led us here. Sadly creating the perfect breeding ground for very rich snake-oil salesmen like Chump and Farage to pretend to be 'of the people' and possible get in.

Reform's "cut taxes, slash the welfare budget" means worse NHS, worse education, much more poverty.
But, it's OK, you have all got your country back.

There has been no responsibility for the lies about Brexit, the criminal goings-on during Covid, the influence on elections and referendoms by bad actors using AI.

Chump just changed the name of the Dept or Defence to ... Department of War. Think on!
Yes, if we keep on and on voting this way, it's next stop 1984.

Yes! 👏🏻