Would you turn your child in if they face the death penalty

Grammaretto

I wouldn't turn a child or any relative of mine in. There used to be a rule that a wife couldn't testify against her husband nor he against her.
I don't know what became of that law but it seems sensible to me.

That came to my mind earlier too. I think it was based on the idea that a women vowed in front of God to obey her husband when they married, so if he asked her to testify on the bible in court that he was not guilty (and he was) she would be in an impossible conflict of interest.

I don't think it still applies.

I read that the father talked his son into giving himself up rather than turning him in. A subtle difference I think.

No it no longer applies Doodledog
I looked it up and since 1984 the law changed in UK. I think it became too complicated with fewer marriages.
You can still legally refuse to give evidence against your spouse.

I am not condescending, but I think as well as thinking how we would react - and my reactions are those of the majority of people on this thread, but I do think we also need to try and see it from the other point of view and think about what and why someone would react as this man has.

There is so much talk of empathy and 'walking in other peoples shoes' and here is a real chance to do just that, to think about what it is to be that man's father, to have the background he does and to make the decision he would make.

That does add a dimension to the discussion, but it doesn’t mean that answering the question as posed makes our views irrelevant or that we are missing the point.

The question is already hypothetical, as we don’t have the death penalty in the UK, and I assume none of us have murderous sons. Adding another hypothesis (how would we behave if we were right wing Americans) is really a step too far.

The father’s beliefs will have influenced his decision - of course they will - but we were asked what we would do, not if we understood why he acted as he did.

I agree MOnica- but I'm finding this thread very strange.
Lots of parents have children who are criminals and it isn't necessarily their fault.

There is an assumption here that handing over your child is something wrong, like some unwritten parental rule that your children must be supported by you whatever they've done.
The Kray twins spring to mind- who always treated their mother well, apparently.
I'm also thinking of Jimmy Saville, likewise.
A crime is a crime is a crime, and it is against the law. It is the judge who pronounces sentence, not the parent. If you don't agree with the death penalty for your child (and who in the right mind would?) then you shouldn't believe in it for anyone elses's child either.
These issues lie at the heart of the struggles the US (and to lesser extent here in the UK) are dealing with right now- that it's ok when it happens to someone else but not to me. When we realise it is happening to me (or even thinking it might, as seems to be the case here) then we feel uncomfortable about it.
This is because killing people, whatever the means, is wrong. At least on that I hope we can all agree, excpet if you think it's ok to execute people, in which case it should be ok, however unfortunate it may be, to execute your child.

I don’t think it is wrong to hand in one’s child. I think it is something I would struggle to do, which is not the same thing at all.

If I knew he was a monster like Savile, I’m sure I’d think differently.

I am glad I don't have to make that decision.
It's possible that not just the young man's father knew but others too but he was given or probably volunteered to be the one to turn his son in.

I don't blame the father I just couldn't do that.

keepingquiet

I agree MOnica- but I'm finding this thread very strange.
Lots of parents have children who are criminals and it isn't necessarily their fault.

There is an assumption here that handing over your child is something wrong, like some unwritten parental rule that your children must be supported by you whatever they've done.
The Kray twins spring to mind- who always treated their mother well, apparently.
I'm also thinking of Jimmy Saville, likewise.
A crime is a crime is a crime, and it is against the law. It is the judge who pronounces sentence, not the parent. If you don't agree with the death penalty for your child (and who in the right mind would?) then you shouldn't believe in it for anyone elses's child either.
These issues lie at the heart of the struggles the US (and to lesser extent here in the UK) are dealing with right now- that it's ok when it happens to someone else but not to me. When we realise it is happening to me (or even thinking it might, as seems to be the case here) then we feel uncomfortable about it.
This is because killing people, whatever the means, is wrong. At least on that I hope we can all agree, excpet if you think it's ok to execute people, in which case it should be ok, however unfortunate it may be, to execute your child.

I don't believe in the death penalty for anyone else's child.

Doodledog

I don’t think it is wrong to hand in one’s child. I think it is something I would struggle to do, which is not the same thing at all.

If I knew he was a monster like Savile, I’m sure I’d think differently.

Saville wouldn't have got the death penalty so that is a different question.

Doodledog

That does add a dimension to the discussion, but it doesn’t mean that answering the question as posed makes our views irrelevant or that we are missing the point.

The question is already hypothetical, as we don’t have the death penalty in the UK, and I assume none of us have murderous sons. Adding another hypothesis (how would we behave if we were right wing Americans) is really a step too far.

The father’s beliefs will have influenced his decision - of course they will - but we were asked what we would do, not if we understood why he acted as he did.

If I was a right wing American I wouldn't be me.

On our news they said the father confided in a close friend and it was that friend who reported the boy . Not the father. You can’t believe anything these days, especially the ‘news’.

So true nanna8. At first we were told a family friend, a minister, had been involved so that sounds plausible.
The family are Mormon.

nanna8

On our news they said the father confided in a close friend and it was that friend who reported the boy . Not the father. You can’t believe anything these days, especially the ‘news’.

Oh that's very true. I worked in police admin for twenty years and I'd often be amazed at what I read in the papers compared to the investigations I was aware of.

Doodledog

That does add a dimension to the discussion, but it doesn’t mean that answering the question as posed makes our views irrelevant or that we are missing the point.

The question is already hypothetical, as we don’t have the death penalty in the UK, and I assume none of us have murderous sons. Adding another hypothesis (how would we behave if we were right wing Americans) is really a step too far.

The father’s beliefs will have influenced his decision - of course they will - but we were asked what we would do, not if we understood why he acted as he did.

which rather negates all the claptrap about empathy and walking in other people's shoes.

Where is this claptrap?

theworriedwell

Doodledog

That does add a dimension to the discussion, but it doesn’t mean that answering the question as posed makes our views irrelevant or that we are missing the point.

The question is already hypothetical, as we don’t have the death penalty in the UK, and I assume none of us have murderous sons. Adding another hypothesis (how would we behave if we were right wing Americans) is really a step too far.

The father’s beliefs will have influenced his decision - of course they will - but we were asked what we would do, not if we understood why he acted as he did.

If I was a right wing American I wouldn't be me.

Exactly. We are answering for ourselves, as we are, and with our values. How can we answer for what we would do if we were other people?

Doodledog

Where is this claptrap?

People are always talking about being empathetic and understanding and feeling other peoples pain, or walking half a mile on other peoples shoes, so they too can feel their suffering.

I have thought that utter rubbish. I would not ever dare to suggest to anyone that I can feel their painor feel as they do about their suffering, whether physical or mental - and other people's shoes wouldn't fit you and hurt you in all the places the other person feels comfortable.

If people really could feel empathy etc etc, they should be able to do it for this family who finding out there was a killer in the family facilitated his arrest.

Thats why I described empathy as claptrap.

A yiung man was arrested after claiming to relatives that he killed Charlie Kirk. From the limited information we have, it seems his behaviour, beliefs in recent times had caused concern. Maybe another isolated lost yiung man being influenced on line and reflecting the polarised views increasingly evident in society

I see his parents are being asked what they did to lead him to behave like this. Some people develop mental health problems, some children are easier to bring up than others.

Would I turn one of my adult children in if I found they’d committed a murder. I’d try to persuade them to come with me. If they refused, yes Id call the police. Taking a life isn’t like taking an item, a car or a valuable painting. It’s killing a living human.

Iam64

A yiung man was arrested after claiming to relatives that he killed Charlie Kirk. From the limited information we have, it seems his behaviour, beliefs in recent times had caused concern. Maybe another isolated lost yiung man being influenced on line and reflecting the polarised views increasingly evident in society

I see his parents are being asked what they did to lead him to behave like this. Some people develop mental health problems, some children are easier to bring up than others.

Would I turn one of my adult children in if I found they’d committed a murder. I’d try to persuade them to come with me. If they refused, yes Id call the police. Taking a life isn’t like taking an item, a car or a valuable painting. It’s killing a living human.

The death penalty also involves taking a life.

The death penalty also involves taking a life.

Some would argue a life for a life.

theworriedwell

Doodledog

I don’t think it is wrong to hand in one’s child. I think it is something I would struggle to do, which is not the same thing at all.

If I knew he was a monster like Savile, I’m sure I’d think differently.

Saville wouldn't have got the death penalty so that is a different question.

So the thread has turned into a debate about the death penalty and not about handing your child in to the law?

I'm not really following the arguments here so have nothing more to contribute...

M0nica

^The death penalty also involves taking a life.^

Some would argue a life for a life.

That’s a very primitive argument. Taking a life, whatever the circumstances, is wrong.

I’m not suggesting you believe in that argument, M0nica.

M0nica

^The death penalty also involves taking a life.^

Some would argue a life for a life.

They might, some might think if you are against taking a life then that includes the death penalty.

It's about handing your child in to face the death penalty, your beliefs about the death penalty are obviously going to affect your decision.