Sadly I don't think reform voters are interested in much other than immigration. It's a rather one issue party and ATM immigration, is for a big percentage of voters, their number one interest.
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Racism is a result of poor psychological functioning
(375 Posts)Steve Taylor, a senior psychological university lecturer has produced an article which outlines how racism may develop, and the 5 stages leading to it.
“ Research shows a link between prejudice and poor psychological functioning, including poor relationships with insecurity and aggression. This can often be traced back to a disturbed and insecure childhood. Other research has shown a link between racism and anxiety, demonstrating that people become more prejudiced during challenging times.
More generally, studies demontrate that when people are made to feel insecure or anxious, they are more likely to identify with their national or ethnic groups. This enhances their self-esteem and their sense of identity, as a defence against insecurity and anxiety.
There are clearly social and economic factors that encourage racism, such as hierarchy and inequality. But the above research suggests that racism is largely a psychological defence mechanism against anxiety and insecurity.”
The 5 stages
1. L“the process begins when a person lacks a sense of security and identity, which generates a desire to affiliate themselves with a group. This affiliation strengthens their identity and provides a sense of belonging.
What’s wrong with this? Why shouldn’t we take pride in our national or religious identity, and feel a sense of brotherhood or sisterhood with others who share our identity?
2. Because group identity often leads to a second, more dangerous stage. In order to further strengthen their sense of identity, members of a group may develop antagonism towards other groups. Such hostility may make the group feel more defined and cohesive, as if they can see themselves more clearly in opposition to others.
3. A third stage of the process is when members of a group withdraw empathy from members of other groups, limiting their concern and compassion to their peers. They may act benevolently towards members of their own group but be indifferent or callous to anyone outside it. The withdrawal of empathy turns other human beings into objects, and enables cruelty and violence.
4. Fourth is the homogenisation of individuals belonging to other groups. People are no longer perceived in terms of their individual personalities or behaviour, but in terms of prejudices about the group as a whole. Any member of the group is a legitimate target and can be punished for the alleged transgressions of other individuals from the group. In contemporary terms, any asylum seeker can be punished for the alleged crime of an individual asylum seeker.
5. Finally, people may project their own psychological flaws and personal failings onto another group, as a strategy of avoiding responsibility. Other groups become scapegoats, and consequently are liable to attacked or even murdered. People with strong narcissistic and paranoid personality traits are especially prone to such projection, since they struggle to accept their personal faults, instead searching for others to take the blame.
In other words, racism is a symptom of psychological ill-health, a sign of anxiety and of a lack of identity and inner security. Psychologically healthy people with a stable sense of identity and security are very rarely (if ever) racist. They ultimately have no need to strengthen their sense of self through group identity.
The Conversation
16/9/25
I know growstuff. I know.
What is it they say - "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." I appreciate some will never accept that is what is happening but just how long will it take the majority to recognise that they are being fooled?
Sadly I don't think reform voters are interested in much other than immigration.
My guess is that is true.
Which is rather stupid of the conservative party and the Labour party to get themselves in that situation.
But I cant help but think nowadays that they dont care.
That bigger things are at play.
Conspiracy theory and all that.
I rahter wish I paid more attention to them when they started appearing.
Then I could possibly make more sense of what is happening.
Sadly agree foxie. And now the announcements from Trump. Will this be more of the "He shares our thoughts on immigration, therefore he must be right on everything". I'm afraid it will be more of the unquestioning reverence and obedience. Do these people feel more relaxed with the idea of authoritarian dictatorship? Presumably some do.
Not just immigration, there are many workers who think they are paying for spongers who are quite capable of work.
Don’t dismiss Reform they are going to get a lot of votes at the next GE.
I haven't seen anyone "dismiss" Reform, quite the opposite in fact, they are a real threat to both main parties. If a vile fascist like Tommy Robinson can get people out on the streets to support him, Farage, your everyday man in the pub with a pint, will be able to get a lot of voters out and he could drastically change the face of British politics.
foxie48
I haven't seen anyone "dismiss" Reform, quite the opposite in fact, they are a real threat to both main parties. If a vile fascist like Tommy Robinson can get people out on the streets to support him, Farage, your everyday man in the pub with a pint, will be able to get a lot of voters out and he could drastically change the face of British politics.
And who’s fault is that? The last government and the present one that’s who.
Get things right and there’s no need for people out demonstrating on the streets.
I predict a mish mash at the next election with several groups having to share power.
foxie48
I haven't seen anyone "dismiss" Reform, quite the opposite in fact, they are a real threat to both main parties. If a vile fascist like Tommy Robinson can get people out on the streets to support him, Farage, your everyday man in the pub with a pint, will be able to get a lot of voters out and he could drastically change the face of British politics.
It’s your own view that it’s all about immigration, it’s not, yesterday Farage was highlighting welfare cost that rings true with many, so does the cost of climate change taxes.
Oreo "And who’s fault is that? The last government and the present one that’s who.
Get things right and there’s no need for people out demonstrating on the streets."
Well, that's a simple answer to a complex problem but IMO supporting people who also give simple answers to complex problems, is almost certainly not the answer
I think a lot of people are fed up with going to work every morning for little reward (often needing to rely on top-ups which mean their financial business is scrutinised by others), and seeing other people getting benefits (whether in ££ or in access to public services) that they do nothing to earn.
I can understand that.
I am not concerned about immigration to any great degree, but I am fed up with a two-tier society in which some are paying high rents because housing is so expensive, working for low pay to make profits for others, seeing public services cut because taxation is not high enough and paying through the nose for water, energy and so on while shareholders are making huge profits.
I realise that some of that is inevitable in a capitalist society, and is fair enough - I wouldn't want to see everything run by the state, and I do believe in people having incentive to achieve - but too many people are being taken for mugs. They see people taking and not putting back, and others making money from their hard work, and there doesn't seem to be a way out for them. Add to that the condescending way 'ordinary people' are often spoken about, and it's a perfect storm. Also, people have been set against one another for ages now, so are easy to 'pick off'.
However, I think that anyone who supports Reform and is also older, has any sort of health issues, relies to any degree on State Pension and/or has children or grandchildren should be careful what they wish for. AI is coming down the road, and who knows what that will mean in terms of numbers needing state support. Already there are not enough people paying tax to support those who don't, and that is likely to get worse. If we do away with the NHS, cut back on benefits for those who need them, crack down on immigration (so there are even fewer people paying in) the UK will be a very different place, and everyone needs to decide on what sort of society they want (or want their descendants) to live in.
And who’s fault is that? The last government and the present one that’s who
I also think people online posting, on any social forum anyone cares to look at, is also to blame.
Name calling has massively backfired.
David49
Not just immigration, there are many workers who think they are paying for spongers who are quite capable of work.
Don’t dismiss Reform they are going to get a lot of votes at the next GE.
I think you are right. The more people denigrate and demonise Farage and his supporters the more people will turn to him. It is dangerous to ignore him and it is dangerous not to listen to the concerns and worries that people have. Some might be racists but many will not be. Labelling a whole bunch of people is not helpful.
nanna8
David49
Not just immigration, there are many workers who think they are paying for spongers who are quite capable of work.
Don’t dismiss Reform they are going to get a lot of votes at the next GE.I think you are right. The more people denigrate and demonise Farage and his supporters the more people will turn to him. It is dangerous to ignore him and it is dangerous not to listen to the concerns and worries that people have. Some might be racists but many will not be. Labelling a whole bunch of people is not helpful.
For Farage the more outrageous his opinion the more attention he gets.
nanna8
David49
Not just immigration, there are many workers who think they are paying for spongers who are quite capable of work.
Don’t dismiss Reform they are going to get a lot of votes at the next GE.I think you are right. The more people denigrate and demonise Farage and his supporters the more people will turn to him. It is dangerous to ignore him and it is dangerous not to listen to the concerns and worries that people have. Some might be racists but many will not be. Labelling a whole bunch of people is not helpful.
I agree that it's dangerous not to listen to people's concerns. That's why I think the major parties must listen and offer something better than Reform is, but not by "out-Reforming" Reform. That's why I think the LibDems' move this week to embrace the union flag is quite a smart move. What the LibDems are saying is that the "united" UK of Tommy Robinson and Farage isn't the same country as most of us actually want. Being a patriot is about having values such as tolerance, fairness and respect for others.
foxie48
Oreo "And who’s fault is that? The last government and the present one that’s who.
Get things right and there’s no need for people out demonstrating on the streets."
Well, that's a simple answer to a complex problem but IMO supporting people who also give simple answers to complex problems, is almost certainly not the answer
So do we need to support people who give complex answers to complex questions? Who are these people please?
David49
nanna8
David49
Not just immigration, there are many workers who think they are paying for spongers who are quite capable of work.
Don’t dismiss Reform they are going to get a lot of votes at the next GE.I think you are right. The more people denigrate and demonise Farage and his supporters the more people will turn to him. It is dangerous to ignore him and it is dangerous not to listen to the concerns and worries that people have. Some might be racists but many will not be. Labelling a whole bunch of people is not helpful.
For Farage the more outrageous his opinion the more attention he gets.
Aint that the truth.
He knows how to "work" people.
The media seem to lap it, and him up.
Well, he has got people on this forum talking.
And the Country.
And the US.
foxie48
Oreo "And who’s fault is that? The last government and the present one that’s who.
Get things right and there’s no need for people out demonstrating on the streets."
Well, that's a simple answer to a complex problem but IMO supporting people who also give simple answers to complex problems, is almost certainly not the answer
All politicians do that.
And it may be a simple answer from me but no less true all the same.
Previous governments have failed us badly over immigration, the illegal immigrants problem is harder to solve but the sheer amount of legal immigration is out of control too and that’s a greater number.
Too many low earners here ( yes we need a certain amount) no checking if visas have expired or chasing up, large numbers from Pakistan and India on ‘student’ visas that involve no study at all, large Afghan families composed of extended family often here on fake papers.I could go on…
The British are renowned for the idea of fair play and when the story about the £600 taxi fare came out yesterday I am sure many people felt the unfairness when they struggle to see a GP. No wonder resentment builds
It’s all happened before and it’s often the small things that cause the trouble
Thanks for agreeing with me, Oreo. Yes many problems that politicians can't find easy answers to which is why we need to be very suspicious of politicians giving easy, uncosted and sometimes illegal ways of solving the problems we face.
luluaugust
The British are renowned for the idea of fair play and when the story about the £600 taxi fare came out yesterday I am sure many people felt the unfairness when they struggle to see a GP. No wonder resentment builds
It’s all happened before and it’s often the small things that cause the trouble
I'm glad that's being investigated. Hopefully, there will be some results from the investigations very soon and the public can be told the truth. If it is true that there are repeated long and unnecessary journeys, they need to be stopped.
Yes it is something about not belittling what impacts peoples lives, their sense of fairness, their sense of trust in institutions.
There was quite a lot of sneering from various quarters in the media, and on social media about Jenricks expose of fair dodging, I felt that completely missed the point of what is important to people. Imagine working a minimum wage job, travelling to work day in and day out paying your way and watching others seemingly scam the system with impunity.
People on the whole want to be able to have trust in how society functions, I think unfortunately lots of people don't.
Having a taxi that cost £600 to see a GP is absolutely bonkers but one of the problems of having a group of asylum seekers housed in an area is that it can, of course, put additional pressure on local services. The sensible thing to do would be to employ locum GPs to travel to the accommodation to see people but I can just imagine the uproar from some people about asylum seekers getting preferential treatment. We are a civilised society and we do need to offer medical care to people regardless of where they have come from or how they arrived but it can be difficult to do that without attracting adverse comments. There's been lots of comments on GN about asylum seekers benefiting from the NHS and they have not usually been very kind.
luluaugust
The British are renowned for the idea of fair play and when the story about the £600 taxi fare came out yesterday I am sure many people felt the unfairness when they struggle to see a GP. No wonder resentment builds
It’s all happened before and it’s often the small things that cause the trouble
I certainly wondered just how far away they were going for that to be the taxi fare. I know the taxi fare for 200 miles distance is somewhere between £300-£400 (yep expensive I know...).
So how far away is £600 then? Logically that tells me about 300 miles. In fairness one of these guys was reported as saying "I offered to go by train instead". But I wouldnt be surprised if most quite happily take those taxis and the point is that we're all expected to put up with a healthcare person that is near where we are now - even if we know they are worse standard than what we saw back in the previous location.
There may be some need to choose someone elsewhere - but that is a lot and we're the ones paying it. Speaking as someone all too conscious that seeing an NHS podiatrist where I am now costs nothing in fares - and I'm paying £160 return trip to a different town to see the private one that is the standard I'm used to having before I moved here (yep there is a bus - but when one is used to a 5 minute walk to get to one - you're not going to go on a bus that takes 2 hours to do a 1 hour trip). But it's my money I'm spending for that and not anyone elses.
So - yep...I disagree with us paying these expensive fares for them.
CariadAgain
luluaugust
The British are renowned for the idea of fair play and when the story about the £600 taxi fare came out yesterday I am sure many people felt the unfairness when they struggle to see a GP. No wonder resentment builds
It’s all happened before and it’s often the small things that cause the troubleI certainly wondered just how far away they were going for that to be the taxi fare. I know the taxi fare for 200 miles distance is somewhere between £300-£400 (yep expensive I know...).
So how far away is £600 then? Logically that tells me about 300 miles. In fairness one of these guys was reported as saying "I offered to go by train instead". But I wouldnt be surprised if most quite happily take those taxis and the point is that we're all expected to put up with a healthcare person that is near where we are now - even if we know they are worse standard than what we saw back in the previous location.
There may be some need to choose someone elsewhere - but that is a lot and we're the ones paying it. Speaking as someone all too conscious that seeing an NHS podiatrist where I am now costs nothing in fares - and I'm paying £160 return trip to a different town to see the private one that is the standard I'm used to having before I moved here (yep there is a bus - but when one is used to a 5 minute walk to get to one - you're not going to go on a bus that takes 2 hours to do a 1 hour trip). But it's my money I'm spending for that and not anyone elses.
So - yep...I disagree with us paying these expensive fares for them.
Rather than speculating, I'd rather wait for a report and find out some facts about why it has been deemed necessary to use taxis.
Unfortunately, all speculation does is generate more tittle tattle and (in some cases) inaccurate conclusions.
foxie48
Having a taxi that cost £600 to see a GP is absolutely bonkers but one of the problems of having a group of asylum seekers housed in an area is that it can, of course, put additional pressure on local services. The sensible thing to do would be to employ locum GPs to travel to the accommodation to see people but I can just imagine the uproar from some people about asylum seekers getting preferential treatment. We are a civilised society and we do need to offer medical care to people regardless of where they have come from or how they arrived but it can be difficult to do that without attracting adverse comments. There's been lots of comments on GN about asylum seekers benefiting from the NHS and they have not usually been very kind.
Perhaps remarks are not kind because of the difficulties people face now in accessing GP and other NHS services?
People might be frustrated and upset if they have to wait 6+ weeks to see a GP, five years for an operation.
Just a thought.
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