Racism is a result of poor psychological functioning

Allira

petra

David49
And there was me thinking I was the only one ( here, not in the real world) who understands that.
Many years ago you could go to quiet Essex villages where they distrusted others
My late friend was a barge skipper in Maldon. He worked and lived on the quay. He didn’t like the people who live up the town as he called it.
Before we became friends he considered me an alien being a woman from southeast london 😂

I was a furriner who shouldn't be stealing a job from locals, apparently. He said he'd thrown my application in the bin when I enquired about progress because I was moving to that area shortly.
That was the man in charge of Human Resources at a City Council many years ago!

You've reminded me there that someone who was in a very good position to know her facts on it told me that the local County Council personnel office scanned through the job application forms when they came in - and they were scanning straight down through everything else to see "that" question first. This is Wales - no prizes for guessing. "That" question was the one that asked them what level of Welsh they spoke - and, if they didn't like the answer to that = the application went straight in the bin if they could get away with it (ie if it was a job they reckoned they'd get a fair number of applicants for - and so they could afford to willy-nilly throw away applications without checking whether it was the best they were throwing in the bin).

I know someone who was "made redundant" apparently - yep....translation "unfairly dismissed" when a school here sacked every single teacher they had (including the head teacher) except one. You can guess why when they told me that that was the only one that spoke Welsh and it was when they'd decided to change the school to a Welsh language one - regardless of the teachers and pretty much regardless of many pupils as well.

Prejudice takes many forms and can even be against people as British in every sense of the word as oneself.

I've watched a "lady" I know vaguely and was well aware what she was like go storming up to a Council workman who had been told his work that day included helping at a community voluntary project thing I'd decided to go to and help out at. She didn't know him from Adam (nor did I....)...but he was peacefully getting on with job and doing what he'd been told he was to do for the day. When I saw she'd gone into angry/self-righteous posture and spat a sentence at him in an angry tone of voice in Welsh and he didnt just say he didnt understand her - he prefaced that with "I'm sorry....." and then said his message. She'd heard him say he didnt speak Welsh as clearly as I had - but she spat another sentence at him still in Welsh and he just looked nonplussed (as he knew she'd heard him say he didn't speak it - and so was clearly wondering why she did it again). I'd got up to him by then - and so I told her very firmly "He's TOLD you he doesnt speak Welsh. Now LEAVE HIM ALONE" and she stomped off in a fury. Job done/relieved workman thanking me for protecting him from unfair dismissal - I'd prevented her driving him to anger he would have been fully entitled to express - and he might have said what she wanted at that point (ie been rude to her and told her where to get off) and she'd have raced/not walked to his employer to complain about him - even though she'd deliberately done her best to make him angry with her and it would have been entirely her fault and I'd have been quite prepared to be a witness to the fact she'd been trying to set him up.

I knew what was happening because I've done loads of voluntary work over the years in England and people quite happy to see me do it. So I'd gone through two voluntary jobs when I moved here - and found myself unfairly dismissed from them for no reason whatsoever and so I knew exactly what she was up to. One of them was helping in a community cafe/food redistribution point and I think I knew what was coming next - when a loudmouth woman came in with her "friend", sat down the other side of the cafe from me and proceeded to talk at her friend in a loud voice with versions of "Plaid Cymru are lovely", glances at me, repeats herself with "Plaid Cymru they're right", glances at me again. I knew what she was up to - she wanted me to walk over to them and go "Yeah...yeah....they are...they are". I was trying my best not to have her set me up. So I kept a totally straight blank face, head down, getting on with things my side of the cafe - so as not to give her any excuse. She still complained about me...apparently I "wasnt friendly" (though I'd not said a word to her - it was their conversation, not mine) and I got unfairly dismissed from that position.

So - yep.....point being that even elsewhere in Britain and everyone involved being British by anyone's definition = someone might still create trouble.

local county council = Ceredigion.

Kandinsky

Whitewavemark2

Talking about football hooliganism - apparently the atmosphere amongst much of the crowd was just like the football crowds of the 80s - white mainly working class males - many drunk - attacking the police

Why did you mention colour & class in this post?
Would you post something like this about trouble at the Nottinghill carnival saying the hooligans were mostly black?

I’ll bet my house you wouldn’t.

Of course I would if the context was correct.

CariadAgain

local county council = Ceredigion.

😁
That's why DH failed to get a job once.
He went a long way for the interview and it was going really well in English - until the very last question. Yes, you've guessed it!
The job did not entail dealing or even speaking to members of the public.

You don't surprise me one bit saying that Allira. I've definitely figured that out that that is how things are in this area of Wales. I've had more than one local Welsh person telling me they've had problems - even though they are from here and as Welsh as the troublemaker - because they don't speak Welsh.

So much for learning it voluntarily! Having said that - one of the best friends I have made here is as Welsh Nationalist as they come....but she's nice/has been helpful to me/etc.

To me - if I was in charge of giving out jobs I would focus purely and simply on the qualifications and experience for the job and be taking a little peep at them to see if they were giving out honest/nice/hardworking person type vibes too. The only way I'd put a Welsh speaker first for a job if I'd got two very well-matched people for one position and I couldnt honestly think how to decide between the two of them - and, at that point, I'd say "Oh well - one of them speaks Welsh only or English only. The other one speaks both languages" and, being desperate for a deciding factor between two good/equally suitable candidates - then I'd pick the one that spoke both languages.

CariadAgain I'm not denying that kind of thing happens, but it seems that you're using it as an excuse (or at least a mitigating factor) for white on black racism?

Wouldn't it be better for everybody to be more tolerant rather than saying "Well, the other side did something, so I'll do it too". In fact, that takes me right back to the primary school playground, so maybe claims that racists are psychologically stunted in some way have a point.

White on black racism has not been mentioned by me. Now there's a thought for the day - someone has probably got to be pretty determined to see racism if they can see it where there isn't any of it....

But surely, we all already knew this?

Israelis who had survived the death camps and studed psychology afterwards were writing this kind of article in the 1980s.

CariadAgain

White on black racism has not been mentioned by me. Now there's a thought for the day - someone has probably got to be pretty determined to see racism if they can see it where there isn't any of it....

So why write about anti-English discrimination in Wales on a thread about racism?

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Mmm. I wonder how these modern poor souls would have coped with WW1 or WW2?
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Barbadosbelle

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Mmm. I wonder how these modern poor souls would have coped with WW1 or WW2?
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Sorry, not sure what you mean. Which "modern poor souls"?

AuntieE

But surely, we all already knew this?

Israelis who had survived the death camps and studed psychology afterwards were writing this kind of article in the 1980s.

It’s not difficult to indoctrinate an entire nation as the Nazis did if you repeat enough lies often enough it will be believed, the more extreme the lies the more extreme will be the reaction.

Not everyone of course but intimidation will suppress any resistance as we see in China, Russia both those countries are top of the list for racism.

The overwhelming view was frustration that nobody would listen when they tried to speak of their experiences.
And isn't that exactly why, when people feel exasperated and angry, they make more noise in order to be heard?
I've witnessed it here in France, where a nation of rational thinkers, (like Descartes, Voltaire, and Rousseau), has turned into a loud mass of dissatisfied protesters, who are equally violent and attack the police.

I repeat, rising emotions about racism often stimulate thought, which eventually calls for a revision of decisions that might lead to more desirable outcomes. It doesn't mean that everyone with something to say is racist or unintelligent. Not at all.

kjmpde

In later life we moved to a village which was made up of all white people. The neighbour next door went to a city college ( multi raced) and was aksed to write a story about her young life. So she wrote it from the perspective of growing up in a white town. She was labelled a racist by the lecturer - she was not . The lecturer gave the setting for the essay ie young life . So sometimes the guidelines for an essay or speach make it look like you are a racist of sexist .

Well the lecturer showed complete ignorance, there was nothing remotely racist about the title of the essay nor probably with what the student wrote. The lecturer had clearly never read many novels! However, the student might have shown a level of "prejudice" depending on what he/she had written.

Depends on what your idea of Racism is nowadays. The definition has become really twisted and almost comical as defined by the woke police and identity politicians

You know the people who are always right and just know better than everbody else.

They are the real fascists and just as bad as Tommy Robinson and his bunch of idiots.

Both camps attract nutters.

As for the person who wrote tis article.

I think they protest too much are in deeply in denial about something.

Perhaps they also have a little bit of a mental health problem!

My goodness this OP has provoked some strong reactions.

Why are people insisting on the notion that the article suggests that racism is a mental health problem??

Th actual conclusion is that psychologically healthy people (ie those with 'a stable sense of identity and security') can cope with difference, and that maybe racism is a sign of psychological ill health (defined as 'anxiety and of a lack of identity and inner security') which is not the same thing at all.

Racism is not an illness, it is a world view, which may be caused by a combination of factors, and it is these that are addressed by the article. It does not say that everyone with anxiety is racist, or anything approaching that, but that being racist may suggest that someone might suffer from a combination of psychological traits.

Taylor is a lecturer in psychology, delves into other areas of the mind eg spiritual awakening, writes books, in the media and appears on television.
His work has been featured widely in the media in the UK, including The Daily Mail, The Daily Express, on BBC Breakfast, BBC World TV, Radio 4 and 5, and in The Guardian and The Independent. He is a member of the British Psychological Society and past chair of its Transpersonal Psychology section.
He is a university lecturer.

There is also another Steve Taylor, psychotherapist, who practises privately.

I'm assuming it's the former.

Perhaps this will reassure people that the link is not a crackpot theory from one person, but has some foundation in research. The Conversation is a respected, academically rigorous organisation.
theconversation.com/racism-isnt-innate-here-are-five-psychological-stages-that-may-lead-to-it-264391#:~:text=Research%20shows%20a%20link%20between,a%20disturbed%20and%20insecure%20childhood.

WithNobsOnIt

Depends on what your idea of Racism is nowadays. The definition has become really twisted and almost comical as defined by the woke police and identity politicians

You know the people who are always right and just know better than everbody else.

They are the real fascists and just as bad as Tommy Robinson and his bunch of idiots.

Both camps attract nutters.

As for the person who wrote tis article.

I think they protest too much are in deeply in denial about something.

Perhaps they also have a little bit of a mental health problem!

Errrmmm ... a well-argued, logical post would be appreciated.

Human beings are tribal. We all need to have a sense of belonging to a particular group of people. The names of countries have mostly come about because of the tribes which settled there and claimed the land as their own. There is a natural sense of hostility towards outsiders. It helps to strengthen the bond within our own tribe. The word 'racism' has been hijacked by those who wish to increase tensions between ethnic groups. It is natural to feel wary towards those who have invaded our territory.

Whitewavemark2

My goodness this OP has provoked some strong reactions.

Errrrm....that's what you were after isn't it?

Casdon

Perhaps this will reassure people that the link is not a crackpot theory from one person, but has some foundation in research. The Conversation is a respected, academically rigorous organisation.
theconversation.com/racism-isnt-innate-here-are-five-psychological-stages-that-may-lead-to-it-264391#:~:text=Research%20shows%20a%20link%20between,a%20disturbed%20and%20insecure%20childhood.

Thanks for posting that Casdon.

I know some people don't trust links, so I've copied and pasted the last three paragraphs:

!In other words, racism is a symptom of psychological ill-health, a sign of anxiety and of a lack of identity and inner security. Psychologically healthy people with a stable sense of identity and security are very rarely (if ever) racist. They ultimately have no need to strengthen their sense of self through group identity.

In my view, racism is an aberration, not an innate human trait. It’s also worth remembering that the very concept of race is baseless. There is no genetic or biological basis for dividing the human race into distinct “races”.

There are just groups of human beings — all of whom came from Africa originally — who developed slightly different physical characteristics over time as they travelled to, and adapted to, different climates and environments."

mum2three

Human beings are tribal. We all need to have a sense of belonging to a particular group of people. The names of countries have mostly come about because of the tribes which settled there and claimed the land as their own. There is a natural sense of hostility towards outsiders. It helps to strengthen the bond within our own tribe. The word 'racism' has been hijacked by those who wish to increase tensions between ethnic groups. It is natural to feel wary towards those who have invaded our territory.

How does that explain racism towards people who were born in the same country - and possibly even had ancestors going back several generations, who were born in the same country? The only difference is their skin colour, but there is no denying that they are still perceived as different by some people.

mum2three

Human beings are tribal. We all need to have a sense of belonging to a particular group of people. The names of countries have mostly come about because of the tribes which settled there and claimed the land as their own. There is a natural sense of hostility towards outsiders. It helps to strengthen the bond within our own tribe. The word 'racism' has been hijacked by those who wish to increase tensions between ethnic groups. It is natural to feel wary towards those who have invaded our territory.

Yep.....try mixing at noticeable intervals with the hippy group where you live (assuming that one lives in a part of the country where there is a substantial size hippie group) and you'll soon hear people telling each other "I've found my tribe here".

We all like people similar to us - if only because there's not so much "explaining" to do all the time of the way one thinks and, if you're unlucky, getting condemned for thinking in a perfectly normal/rational way about something. It's easier when one can take it for granted a noticeable number of major points are agreed on. It's having things in common - couldn't really put it better than a local Welsh workman who rocked up at my place one day and took a good look at my house and garden and then proceeded to say to me "Well you (ie the English was what he meant) live the same way we do" (subtext = "So I see no problem then"). Well yep....I guess so...."3 meals a day every day throughout the year/women are supposed to be equal/we're pretty tolerant about what religion or none people are and expect that in return/a substantial proportion of both are concerned with having our homes comfortable for us and doing at least a reasonable amount of maintenance on them" etc etc. It's down to similar expectations of life I guess....