This is one of many reasons why so many people marched in London.

Galaxy

There has just been some interesting analysis of labour party support by school type ( public and private) just recently, support was higher in those who had private schooling which is fairly surprising on many levels.

Why?

The idea that people who want a fairer society and equal opportunity for all must be horny-handed sons (or daughters) of toil is absurd and very dated. I don’t understand jibes about ‘champagne socialists’ and suggestions of hypocrisy towards Labour voters who aren’t on the breadline. The whole point of the Labour movement is to lift people out of poverty, so why is it surprising that not all supporters are impoverished? Choice of school is made by parents, not the children who attend, so unless private schools indoctrinate pupils into Conservative values (or those values are somehow hereditary) then why is it odd that some of those who attend have views that align with Labour?

It has long been the case that LP membership (not necessarily support) has been higher amongst graduates than those without degrees, yet the idea that it is (or should be) a ‘blue collar’ movement persists. It’s a very snobbish perspective.

Yes I absolutely agree with that doodledog

Labour is fast losing its traditional support base to Reform.

I think class exists but rather the labour party is beginning to represent a different group of people than they once did.

Oreo

Labour is fast losing its traditional support base to Reform.

If we're talking about the 'traditional support base' in terms of 'class' that might well be so. But over all, polling shows that Labour is losing more voters to the Greens and the Lib Dems than to Reform. It's the tories who are losing most voters to Reform.

Also, the young don't appear to be much interested in Reform. The greatest number of Reform voters are in the 50+ age group.

I saw Dominic Cummings ( I know I know) saying what we are seeing is the collapse of the two major parties and the jostling for position as their replacements.

The current Labour Party is not really Labour at all , they don’t seem to be in touch with people and that seems to be the problem. They are more Chardonnay socialists if anything and that is precisely why so many are looking for an alternative. Hopefully they may change before it is too late but I don’t think they will unless they change their leader.

Chardonnay socialists? The term used to be Champagne socialists. Are Labour supporters coming down in the world?

Joking apart, I agree with both Galaxy and nanna8.

I think that Labour really is out of touch with what most people want. Sadly they have been convinced that action on immigration is people's most pressing 'want' and have put far too much focus on that when in reality the ever increasing cost of food and housing and the dire state of the NHS (and more) do come top in most people's concerns.

Galaxy

I saw Dominic Cummings ( I know I know) saying what we are seeing is the collapse of the two major parties and the jostling for position as their replacements.

Recent polling suggests under 40% of voters now support the two traditional parties. The old loyalties seem to have died in the last few years and the next election could see a hung parliament as voting has split so many different ways. I think we now need PR, so parliament reflects the electoratew better, rather than the system we have that reinforces the old two party system.
Under PR, you would feel that voting for a party like the Lib Dems wouldn't be wasted and it would end the ridiculous situation where a party with a third of the vote wins by a landslide. Also lazy MPs with huge majorities would be a thing of the past( thinking of a local one who did nothing as he knew he would always be re elected).

I agree that Labour is out of touch, that older left-leaning people can be condescending and that a lot of people think in stereotypes - the idea that Labour voters should all be factory hands or work in industries that no longer exist is testament to all of that. I also think that the awful Cummings has a point, which has not gone unnoticed by very dark forces who will pull out all the stops to plug the gaps left by old allegiances. As AI shifts old class boundaries there will be more and more to play for.

Sorry I have just seen your earlier post doodledog, it is surprising because of the policy labour introduced re private schools.

I have seen suggestions that it us likely reform would hold the majority with lib dems and the green party being the opposition.
The your party debacle is very good for the green party.

Galaxy

Sorry I have just seen your earlier post doodledog, it is surprising because of the policy labour introduced re private schools.

I think it just goes to show that it wasn't as evil a policy as the right wing (sorry) media made it out to be and didn't adversely affect enough people to make a difference to poll results.

It would be good if it influenced Labour to be bolder when it comes to taxing the wealthy, but when I read that they are talking to the Tufton St gang, the one's who backed and applauded Liz Truss's budget, then I despair.

No Chardonnay for me thank you (anyone watch footballers wives many years ago, I think one of the babies were called Chardonnay)

If all the polls are correct, I will be out of the U.K. before Nigel Farage has moved into No.10.

nanna8

The current Labour Party is not really Labour at all , they don’t seem to be in touch with people and that seems to be the problem. They are more Chardonnay socialists if anything and that is precisely why so many are looking for an alternative. Hopefully they may change before it is too late but I don’t think they will unless they change their leader.

Cummings is right, although it hurts me to write those words.

The more the two main parties keep having internal disagreements, the more splinter groups keep forming, then the more voters Reform will attract.

They will be the next Government if Labour and the Tories don't get their acts together and then we'll really be in the mire.

Cumbrianmale56

growstuff

Cumbrianmale56

The problem is if you criticise mass immigration or dare to attend a peaceful march about it, you are automatically classed as far Right, a fascist or a bigot. It's all very well these mostly middle class anti racist protestors waving their Refugees Welcome banners and shouting Nazi scum at people, but they mostly live well away from asylum hotels and areas where young migrant men have been a problem.
Interesting fact the Left might be surprised by, there were some black and Asian people on the march last week. It shows that they're sick of unlimited immigration as well,

Some nice stereotyping here!

If people don't want to accept that the people who go on marches and wave St George flags are unintelligent, racist thugs, maybe they should also accept that not everybody who objects to anti-immigrant marches is a middle-class, muesli-munching vegan, woke "liberal" who has no idea what it's like living anywhere near immigrants.

There could be middle class people on the anti immigration marches, same as some of the pro immigrant counter protests contain working class people, but it does seem left wing protestors these days are mainly middle class. I saw one on the anti Trump march with a Socialist Worker banner who sounded like he went to Eton.

I still don't know how you can tell a person's "class" just by looking at them or listening to their accent.

Not only that, but a person born into a particular "class" doesn't necessarily stay there. Over the course of a lifetime, a person's circumstances can change drastically and that person would (by traditional assessments) belong to a different class.

If the class of children is dictated by the parents, it's always quite amusing that Ted Heath was the child of working class parents, whereas Harold Wilson's parents were middle class. It really is an outmoded categorisation.

GrannyGravy13

No Chardonnay for me thank you (anyone watch footballers wives many years ago, I think one of the babies were called Chardonnay)

If all the polls are correct, I will be out of the U.K. before Nigel Farage has moved into No.10.

Yes, Chardonnay and the name did become popular for a while, I think!

growstuff

petra

nodramahere
The vast majority of those returnees are people who held a visa and over stayed.

Thanks for pointing that out. It should be relatively easy to find visa over-stayers, so I don't know why the systems haven't been put in place to find them.

It’s not rocket science is it. 🤷‍♀️ I can’t decide if it’s lack of resources or can’t be bothered.

petra

growstuff

petra

nodramahere
The vast majority of those returnees are people who held a visa and over stayed.

Thanks for pointing that out. It should be relatively easy to find visa over-stayers, so I don't know why the systems haven't been put in place to find them.

It’s not rocket science is it. 🤷‍♀️ I can’t decide if it’s lack of resources or can’t be bothered.

Journalists seem to be able to find them!

GrannyGravy13

No Chardonnay for me thank you (anyone watch footballers wives many years ago, I think one of the babies were called Chardonnay)

If all the polls are correct, I will be out of the U.K. before Nigel Farage has moved into No.10.

Lucky you GG.

Sadly that’s not an option for many of us, although my DD & her husband have tentatively spoken of leaving if a Reform government ever became a reality.

Galaxy

Sorry I have just seen your earlier post doodledog, it is surprising because of the policy labour introduced re private schools.

But voters are not schoolchildren, and amongst the adults who are paying for their children to attend private school there are people who don't approve of what they see as the 'need' for a two tier education system, but feel that the state schools in their area are poor, so send their children privately. I know such people. It's much the same as people who dislike queue jumping in the NHS, but given the fact that waiting lists are still very long feel forced to do so. They would prefer both schools and healthcare to be fair, and vote in the hope that this can be achieved if there is a will.

I don’t know whether it is the same in the uk but here the discipline in private schools seems to be better as regards students. A lot of time is spent dealing with rowdy pupils in some of the state schools- to the detriment of the rest of the pupils. That is a big reason for opting for private schools. They can expel pupils for bad behaviour. Stare schools really can’t unless extreme violence occurs. My experience also was that the private schools know who all their pupils are, it shows at the parent interviews. State schools, not so much - unless the pupil is very disruptive or very brainy.

You don't get many people who always vote for the same party these days. The electorate has moved on and seem willing to try new parties, though I doubt Corbyn's movement will do much as they can't even agree on a name.
Also by middle class left wingers, what I should have ecplained in other posts aren't mainstream Labour Party members, who are quite centrist, but those who are on the fringes and are in organisations like Momentum and the SWP.

Cumbrianmale56

You don't get many people who always vote for the same party these days. The electorate has moved on and seem willing to try new parties, though I doubt Corbyn's movement will do much as they can't even agree on a name.
Also by middle class left wingers, what I should have ecplained in other posts aren't mainstream Labour Party members, who are quite centrist, but those who are on the fringes and are in organisations like Momentum and the SWP.

Again, there is unjustified stereotyping here.

I know dozens of Labour voters. Most of them have what I suppose people would call "middle class jobs" (NHS, local government, IT, scientists) and not one of them is on the fringes or belongs to Momentum (if it still exists).

They want what most people in the country want: an NHS which functions, decent schools, trains and buses which arrive on time, water free from pollutants, targeted support for the vulnerable, fair taxes - none of which are the sole prerogative of extremists or fringe parties.

nanna8

I don’t know whether it is the same in the uk but here the discipline in private schools seems to be better as regards students. A lot of time is spent dealing with rowdy pupils in some of the state schools- to the detriment of the rest of the pupils. That is a big reason for opting for private schools. They can expel pupils for bad behaviour. Stare schools really can’t unless extreme violence occurs. My experience also was that the private schools know who all their pupils are, it shows at the parent interviews. State schools, not so much - unless the pupil is very disruptive or very brainy.

Private schools can expel pupils more easily. As a state secondary school teacher, I often had to teach pupils who had been expelled from private schools. As the parents are paying, they will usually try to get their offspring to behave, but if that doesn't work, the pupils will be asked to leave and often end up in state schools. The parents decide it's not worth wasting money on them. State schools have to go through lengthy processes before they can get rid of badly behaved pupils.