Islamophobia

Whitewavemark2

eazybee

Anyone turning up at any protest March will of course support what the March stands for.
They were bystanders to hate. They listened to the rhetoric - how many showed disagreement to the racist rhetoric?

A dangerously stupid statement. People can stand and listen and form their own opinions, and if they don't approve generally leave. Showing disagreement to the racist rhetoric in an already febrile situation would result in altercation, just what the organisers hope for.

No that is such a wrong assumption.

If I turned up at a rally and the speeches were clearly racist then I would leave immediately. There was no need to voice your opposition.

I was not aware of mass departures when the speeches began.

Trying to find racism seems to occupy 99% of your thoughts!

Just as well we seem to have put a stop to it though. If not, I think it would be reported all over the MSM.

Whitewavemark2

Extracts from the The Observer Leader with which I entirely agree.

“Last weekend about 110000 people gathered in Whitehall to listen to Tommy Robinson and others spew hatred towards Muslims.

Their claims were baseless and their language abhorrent.

It was also actionable.

If the same rhetoric had been used about people who are black or Jewish there would have been arrests.

Whenever a community is dehumanised by racists it is dehumanised in the same way, with sweeping accusations of violence and menace with no regard for truth or the basic tenet of a just society that no one should be persecuted on the basis of their religion or race.

……………………
The Unite the Kingdom demonstration was a national disgrace.

Everyone who took part, even if simply by showing up and listening, was a bystander to hate; not free speech.

They are helping to spread fear amongst fellow citizens who happen to be Muslim.

Not seeing it that way is no excuse”

You only have to replace the word Muslim to Jewish to understand just how dangerous the rhetoric was.

This should never be allowed to happen again.

You mean there is no excuse for those who dont see it your way.

TerriBull's post is interesting.

Might be from Saint Matthew, 'I was thirsty and you gave me to drink'.

Would be very interested to know your own definition of 'racist'.

Maremia

I realise that the Bible one is a quote, fancythat.
Are the other statements also quotes?

They are not quotes.

Most people will be aware that the Bible tells people to love others.
Such as "Love your enemy..". Give him water to drink something something[I can find the exact Bible verses if you would like].
"love you neighbour" etc.

Maremia

'racist' has lots of meanings? Every days' a learning day on GN.
Cambridge Dictionary gives
'someone who believes their race makes them better than people of other races and who does or says harmful things as a result.'

You will have noticed that Ww2 chose not to give hers.
Along with her meaning of the word Islamophobia.

One thing some people don’t realise but should know, many Muslims don’t live in communities and even those who do are experiencing a younger generation moving away as younger generations do. The majority are integrated within society holding down responsible jobs/carving out careers, paying their taxes, buying a house, and washing their cars on a Sunday. And of course they share the same values.
Thing is I shouldn’t need to say any of this.

I realise that the Bible one is a quote, fancythat.
Are the other statements also quotes?

'racist' has lots of meanings? Every days' a learning day on GN.
Cambridge Dictionary gives
'someone who believes their race makes them better than people of other races and who does or says harmful things as a result.'

GrannyGravy13

I doubt very much that those at the end or on the peripheries of the march could hear the speeches.

I think that the chants of Allah, Allah who the f**k is Allah by a small section of the crowd was disgusting.

Not sure if this would be classed as hate or blasphemy though?

By all means arrest any wrong doers, but saying all were anti-Islam is simply erroneous , not all irregular asylum seekers are Muslims or people of colour…

Most asylum seekers are Muslim though because of the terrible state of many Muslim countries, in no small part down to western meddling in the ME and Afghanistan etc.

You will therefore be more than aware that most people are not not loving of mus lim people or those of other races and religions,

You will therefore be more than aware that people can and should and do love people, but not love what they do.

As it is said in the Bible, hate the sin, love the sinner.

So it is all, generally, far from the total hate situation that you and others would like many people to believe.

Yes, GG13, they were simply going to central London for a long, boring walk, having a 'family day out'. But now they know, about the racial element, so, will they join in again?
We'll have to wait and see,

Whitewavemark2

fancythat

Ww2 - you like to stir.
As you agreed on another thread.

I doubt I will participate much in this discussion as it is another stir thread.

My two points for now are, please say what you personally mean by your own title of Islamophobia.

And also what you personally mean by the term racist.

Those two words mean different things to different people.

What do you personally, mean by them?

That is the Leader of a Sunday paper 😄😄😄.

It is an opinion with which I and I have no doubt millions of others agree.

I think it is a timely warning of what might befall this country if we allow people like Robinson and his unpleasant racist cohorts a foothold.

It isn’t my title - it is the observer’s.

If you have to have the term racist explained to you then you are a lost cause.

You didnt actually choose to answer the questions.

Very interesting.

I doubt very much that those at the end or on the peripheries of the march could hear the speeches.

I think that the chants of Allah, Allah who the f**k is Allah by a small section of the crowd was disgusting.

Not sure if this would be classed as hate or blasphemy though?

By all means arrest any wrong doers, but saying all were anti-Islam is simply erroneous , not all irregular asylum seekers are Muslims or people of colour…

Now that everyone who took part in the march will know about the racist overtones, and Elon Musk's actionable broadcast, and have seen the videos of the violence by some, the proof of the pudding will be if they are happy to join in another such march.
Is another one planned?

fancythat

Ww2 - you like to stir.
As you agreed on another thread.

I doubt I will participate much in this discussion as it is another stir thread.

My two points for now are, please say what you personally mean by your own title of Islamophobia.

And also what you personally mean by the term racist.

Those two words mean different things to different people.

What do you personally, mean by them?

That is the Leader of a Sunday paper 😄😄😄.

It is an opinion with which I and I have no doubt millions of others agree.

I think it is a timely warning of what might befall this country if we allow people like Robinson and his unpleasant racist cohorts a foothold.

It isn’t my title - it is the observer’s.

If you have to have the term racist explained to you then you are a lost cause.

eazybee

^Anyone turning up at any protest March will of course support what the March stands for.^
They were bystanders to hate. They listened to the rhetoric - how many showed disagreement to the racist rhetoric?

A dangerously stupid statement. People can stand and listen and form their own opinions, and if they don't approve generally leave. Showing disagreement to the racist rhetoric in an already febrile situation would result in altercation, just what the organisers hope for.

No that is such a wrong assumption.

If I turned up at a rally and the speeches were clearly racist then I would leave immediately. There was no need to voice your opposition.

I was not aware of mass departures when the speeches began.

Ww2 - you like to stir.
As you agreed on another thread.

I doubt I will participate much in this discussion as it is another stir thread.

My two points for now are, please say what you personally mean by your own title of Islamophobia.

And also what you personally mean by the term racist.

Those two words mean different things to different people.

What do you personally, mean by them?

One Muslim I know who is involved with fashion design and has wicked sense of humour said ‘hey when it comes to racism Muslims are so in season right now, get with the fashion, they really are ‘the new black’

Anyone turning up at any protest March will of course support what the March stands for.
They were bystanders to hate. They listened to the rhetoric - how many showed disagreement to the racist rhetoric?

A dangerously stupid statement. People can stand and listen and form their own opinions, and if they don't approve generally leave. Showing disagreement to the racist rhetoric in an already febrile situation would result in altercation, just what the organisers hope for.

Allira

This article in itself is dangerous rhetoric.

Quite the opposite in fact.

It is warning of the consequences of racist rhetoric.

Would you say that about an Observer newspaper article in the 30s saying exactly the same thing about the anti-Jewish rallies?

Anyone attending those rallies were complicit it what subsequently took place.

It is exactly the same for the Robinson rally.

Even the discussion on here while the event was going on seemed unsure whether it was a protest march or a peaceful rally, so I think turning up was one thing, staying to listen once the purpose of the speech was clear, quite another.

Most religions can be bloodthirsty when they feel under threat. The Robinson speech was unprovoked aggression and incitement to hatred.

Allira

Whitewavemark2

Allira

Perhaps all protests should be banned, then?
That should sort it, shouldn't it.
🤔

But you see that isn’t what the leader is saying is it?

What it is saying is that certain rhetoric heard at the rally was in fact actionable.

That if you replaced the word Muslim with any other minority, it would have ended certainly in arrest.

So - protest by all means - but within the law.

"Everyone who took part, even if simply by showing up and listening, was a bystander to hate; not free speech."

This is the problem.

If taken to a logical conclusion, everyone at an anti-Israel protest march is a bystander to hate thereby anti-semitic.

How many show disagreement?

So, when protesting against a state and not a race. That is entirely different.

The anti- Israeli/pro-Palestine marches are about state warfare.

The Robinson rally was racist in conception because it was about a group of people.