ID cards at long last

mokryna

I carried for a long time a carte de séjour. I had to keep it up to date even while living in Beijing, where there I carried a Chinese foreigners’ card and driving license. However, Brexit happened, and then I had to go through the rigmarole to become a French citizen, like all the other UK citizens, as although I wouldn’t have needed to if I was still married, I was an illegal? divorced citizen.
These days I carry two cards with my bank card, one for the medical services (plus private insurance) and the other a French identity card.
It doesn’t bother me to carry these cards, I don’t have the phone app though, through choice but I suppose it will be inevitable.
These cards stop people, who are not paying taxes claiming social services including some UK citizens, who have to travel back to the UK to be treated.

Ggggrrr! Many of those people travelling to the UK for medical treatment are doing so illegally. They should be paying in France.

I am a pensioner who pays tax, but I had never heard of Government Gateway before reading this thread!

Aely

I am a pensioner who pays tax, but I had never heard of Government Gateway before reading this thread!

You won't need it, unless you have other tax liabilities, such as self-employed income or more than £1000 a year in interest from savings.

If your tax is paid on a pension, it will be deducted at source, but you can check the payments are correct on Government Gateway.

growstuff

mokryna

I carried for a long time a carte de séjour. I had to keep it up to date even while living in Beijing, where there I carried a Chinese foreigners’ card and driving license. However, Brexit happened, and then I had to go through the rigmarole to become a French citizen, like all the other UK citizens, as although I wouldn’t have needed to if I was still married, I was an illegal? divorced citizen.
These days I carry two cards with my bank card, one for the medical services (plus private insurance) and the other a French identity card.
It doesn’t bother me to carry these cards, I don’t have the phone app though, through choice but I suppose it will be inevitable.
These cards stop people, who are not paying taxes claiming social services including some UK citizens, who have to travel back to the UK to be treated.

Ggggrrr! Many of those people travelling to the UK for medical treatment are doing so illegally. They should be paying in France.

Actually no. If you are a UK state pensioner and the holder of an S1 form you are entitled to treatment in the UK, which is your competent state. The UK also makes a payment to France for treatment there. It is a reciprocal arrangement for those of us who held S1 forms before Brexit.

Actually yes, if you're not a UK state pensioner or dodn't hold an S1 form before Brexit. (That's why I wrote "many" and not "all".)

didn't*

Allsorts

I have been informed by my family that ID cards a waste of time and money. More concerned about what KS not doing and this is a distraction away from what he is failing at.

The first part of your post is what many on Gransnet are also saying.
You make an interesting point with the second part of your post. That’s what many are saying too.

growstuff

mokryna

I carried for a long time a carte de séjour. I had to keep it up to date even while living in Beijing, where there I carried a Chinese foreigners’ card and driving license. However, Brexit happened, and then I had to go through the rigmarole to become a French citizen, like all the other UK citizens, as although I wouldn’t have needed to if I was still married, I was an illegal? divorced citizen.
These days I carry two cards with my bank card, one for the medical services (plus private insurance) and the other a French identity card.
It doesn’t bother me to carry these cards, I don’t have the phone app though, through choice but I suppose it will be inevitable.
These cards stop people, who are not paying taxes claiming social services including some UK citizens, who have to travel back to the UK to be treated.

Ggggrrr! Many of those people travelling to the UK for medical treatment are doing so illegally. They should be paying in France.

These OAPs, I think, are under the government’s radar. They don’t fill in the French tax papers, which if they did, they would have to declare their UK pension and may have to pay French tax plus social charges. I know I do.

growstuff

Actually yes, if you're not a UK state pensioner or dodn't hold an S1 form before Brexit. (That's why I wrote "many" and not "all".)

Indeed. And we are a dying breed!

My understanding of ID cards is mainly for employment, confirming that a person applying for a job is in the UK legally. I doubt that this would apply to most of us Grandnetters!

Shashasmum I can’t draw my state pension for a few years yet. So I work and still do apply for jobs. There are more out there in the uk at least, than you might think.

Sashasmum

My understanding of ID cards is mainly for employment, confirming that a person applying for a job is in the UK legally. I doubt that this would apply to most of us Grandnetters!

Thinks (do correct me if I'm wrong) one has to have an NI number to quote to get a job legitimately. Otherwise why are there so many illegals "taking over" Deliveroo jobs from the person who ostensibly applied for them deliberately.

Admits I do wonder just how many of that sort of job they are taking over in fact - as when one lives somewhere like remote West Wales (as I do) then you're probably doing a LOT of your shopping via Amazon (especially if you've not got a car). Cue for I'm receiving stuff very frequently from them - and I don't recall a non-British person delivering my goods ever until a few months back.....but now there's a noticeable chance that they won't be British (by which I mean English/Welsh/Scottish/Irish) and....it's a case of "What the heck do I care?" basically - but I do wonder why there's been such a change in the nationality of my deliverers just in the last few months and whether this means Amazon is maybe not too "meticulous" about making sure all its deliverers are legit.

Has anyone seen Boris Johnson's thoughts on this?

Molly10

Has anyone seen Boris Johnson's thoughts on this?

Why should anyone care what he thinks?

CariadAgain

Sashasmum

My understanding of ID cards is mainly for employment, confirming that a person applying for a job is in the UK legally. I doubt that this would apply to most of us Grandnetters!

Thinks (do correct me if I'm wrong) one has to have an NI number to quote to get a job legitimately. Otherwise why are there so many illegals "taking over" Deliveroo jobs from the person who ostensibly applied for them deliberately.

Admits I do wonder just how many of that sort of job they are taking over in fact - as when one lives somewhere like remote West Wales (as I do) then you're probably doing a LOT of your shopping via Amazon (especially if you've not got a car). Cue for I'm receiving stuff very frequently from them - and I don't recall a non-British person delivering my goods ever until a few months back.....but now there's a noticeable chance that they won't be British (by which I mean English/Welsh/Scottish/Irish) and....it's a case of "What the heck do I care?" basically - but I do wonder why there's been such a change in the nationality of my deliverers just in the last few months and whether this means Amazon is maybe not too "meticulous" about making sure all its deliverers are legit.

I think it must be because of where you live. 90% of delivery drivers in North Wiltshire are foreign and have been ever since we moved here 10 years ago but I don’t imagine any of them are working illegally.

CariadAgain
This is not simply deliveries but also Uber. One official driver has the certificate and when he goes off duty it is passed onto another. I must admit I never check the photo with the driver as I just hop in on and the car moves off. Also, to be honest one bearded person looks like another to me. However I do try to have a lady driver if one is available.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

keepingquiet

Molly10

Has anyone seen Boris Johnson's thoughts on this?

Why should anyone care what he thinks?

That wasn't the question but you gave a rather naive retort.

We live in a democratic society so everyone is allowed there opinion.

Whatever anyone's opinion of him as a person or a Prime Minister isn't relevant. He is a lively writer and anyone's take on his view would be interesting to hear.

It differs in thought to some on here.

To listen to many views is very important in view to changes whether that be past, present or possibly future Prime Ministers along with all.

Johnson's comments are behind a DM paywall. I can see from the headline that he disagrees (as do I) but can you please precis why he disagrees.

Just out of interest PaynesGrey, which bits of this do you most disagree with? (Apart from the proof reading howler).

www.gov.uk/government/publications/digital-id-scheme-explainer/digital-id-scheme-explainer

PaynesGrey

Johnson's comments are behind a DM paywall. I can see from the headline that he disagrees (as do I) but can you please precis why he disagrees.

Yes, like lots of things these days. If you can, from someone, get to read it as I could not imitate his take "quite funny".

Comments:

"We still havn't properly digitised NHS records" yet we are expected that the government will set this securely."

40% of people in London born abroad.

"By the time they have finished working out who should or should not be on the database, and by the time they have finished setting it up, the costs will be astronomical. It will make HS2 a total bargain".

"We are talking about many , many tens of billions of pounds, at a time when taxes are at an all-time high"

"I am afraid that, as ever, it won't be the criminals and law breakers who suffer from this vast extension of bureaucracy and state power. It will be everyone else. It will be you and me, blameless citizens who find that their personal data is now being stored in some government system - and whatever they tell you now, that system will be vulnerable to attack. Look at what has happened in the past few months. "

He mentions Landrover M&S etc. There is much more but I will quote one last thing.

" It's a hideously expensive non-answer to the problem of illegal immigration that will plague the innocent and do nothing to deter the guilty."

As I wrote upthread, my concern is function creep - that ID cards end up being used for a lot more than their original stated purpose particularly that they will be used as a surveillance tool.

That is what happened with the 1939 National Register - the last time we had ID cards - when we were were at war. Three intended purposes: national service, security and rationing.

Eleven years later, long after the war had ended, 39 different goverment agencies were using the data. Some were benign and useful e.g registration for the NHS and Family Allowance. Others were less benign - used to track and monitor people's personal lives.

The police used the data to keep "private" databases of people they were watching. You could not check into a hotel without an ID card. You were not allowed to use any Post Office services without ID. You couldn't access savings, draw a pension or even post or collect a parcel without an ID card. Nowadays, extend that to all banks and courier services and think of the possible consequences.

In the hands of a fascist government, which we are sleepwalking into, ID cards would be a very, very dangerous tool.

Watch Richard Murphy explain:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=AI8cyjfNAfc

As he says, it will do nothing to deter employers who want to conceal their existence and use ghost labour.

Don't overlook the fact that Reform want to take away our human rights, wants to abolish the Human Rights Act 1988. This among other things gives us a right to privacy.

www.bihr.org.uk/get-informed/what-rights-do-i-have

CariadAgain
It’s not Amazon themselves who check a person's legitimacy to work, it’s the recruitment company Amazon employ.

PaynesGrey

As I wrote upthread, my concern is function creep - that ID cards end up being used for a lot more than their original stated purpose particularly that they will be used as a surveillance tool.

That is what happened with the 1939 National Register - the last time we had ID cards - when we were were at war. Three intended purposes: national service, security and rationing.

Eleven years later, long after the war had ended, 39 different goverment agencies were using the data. Some were benign and useful e.g registration for the NHS and Family Allowance. Others were less benign - used to track and monitor people's personal lives.

The police used the data to keep "private" databases of people they were watching. You could not check into a hotel without an ID card. You were not allowed to use any Post Office services without ID. You couldn't access savings, draw a pension or even post or collect a parcel without an ID card. Nowadays, extend that to all banks and courier services and think of the possible consequences.

In the hands of a fascist government, which we are sleepwalking into, ID cards would be a very, very dangerous tool.

Watch Richard Murphy explain:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=AI8cyjfNAfc

As he says, it will do nothing to deter employers who want to conceal their existence and use ghost labour.

Don't overlook the fact that Reform want to take away our human rights, wants to abolish the Human Rights Act 1988. This among other things gives us a right to privacy.

www.bihr.org.uk/get-informed/what-rights-do-i-have

Obviously we are not talking about ID cards, we are talking about Digital ID sign-in for Government Services.
Having lived so long in France I am perfectly happy with an ID card because it assures my right to live here (I used it this morning to get the Mairie Town Hall) to confirm that I am still alive for a form for the UK State Pension Service). My French friends regard ID as a normal part of life and have never expressed any concerns.
Do you not need to confirm who you are to the Post Office when you collect a parcel? Sounds a bit dodgy to me!

We’ve been here before. The reaction is the same.
www.facebook.com/share/r/199DBjy3YE/?mibextid=wwXIfr