MaizieD Tue 14-Oct-25 09:43:14
"My quuestion was ""Why should any government need to 'make savings'. LemonJam? when 'savings' actually damage the economy?"
You quoted it in your 'non answer' post at 22.21...
I'm not trying to make an issue of this; it was just that having quoted my question you didn't actually answer it. Not that you're obliged to, I just thought it a bit odd".
You directed a question specifically to me personally and I actually did give an answer, in the context of this post about Reform's proposals. However you found my answer a "none answer" and a "bit odd". I can live with that.
Who knows what the answer to your question is specifically? I would have thought the "any government" to which you refer in your question should provide you with your answer as to their reasons.
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Reform admits their proposed tax cuts are just an ASPIRATION
(38 Posts)BREAKING NEWS- Richard Tice confirms Reform abandoning firm commitment to most of £90bn tax cuts in 2024 manifesto. Richard Tice, the Reform UK deputy leader, has confirmed that the party has dropped its commitment to most of the £90bn tax cuts it was promising in its election manifesto last year.
In a significant change of tack, the party is now saying that it will not implement tax cuts until it has cut government spending first.
Tice and Nigel Farage, the Reform UK leader, still believe that colossal cuts in public spending are achievable, and that these could be used to fund big tax cuts. But they have abandoned the bravado of the 2024 Reform manifesto, which implied rebalancing the economy in that way was relatively straightforward.
At their party conferences Labour and the Conservatives both claimed that Reform’s irresponsible economic policies would crash the economy just like Liz Truss’s mini-budget, and it is now clear that this line of attack seems to have had an impact.
In its manifesto, Reform proposed tax cuts worth £90bn, alongside spending commitments worth £50bn. The key tax cut would have been lifting the tax-free personal allowance to £20,000.
Today Tice told Times Radio that this was no longer a commitment, but just an “aspiration”. He said Reform remained committed to getting rid of net zero environmental levies, but he went on: “All the other details [in the manifesto] go because we’re in a different time.”
Tice explained:
A manifesto is based on a point in time. The principles behind it are absolutely rock solid. We said we’ve got to make very significant savings in order to fund a different way to run the economy.
What’s happened since then is that the state of the economy, because of the mismanagement by this Labour government, the numbers have got far worse. And we will be focusing relentlessly, as I’ve been saying, on the savings.
Tice was speaking after Farage told the Times in an interview that Reform would have a “rigorous and fully-costed manifesto” at the next election and that a Reform government could cut spending before it cut taxes. Farage said:
Reform will never borrow to spend, as Labour and the Tories have done for so long; instead, we will ensure savings are made before implementing tax cuts. I will have more to say on all this in the coming weeks.
The tax and spending policies in Reform’s 2024 manifesto were widely seen an unrealistic. Although the party claimed that its proposed cuts were affordable, the Economist published an analysis claiming that a more realistic assessment of the plans showed “the annual costs are in the region of £200bn and savings around £100bn”. The Economist said: “The gap between the two would amount to a colossal fiscal shock, blowing up the deficit and straining the gilt market to its limits.”
Reform is no different from any other party. All incoming governments inherit the budget deficits of the previous governments. Reform are now being honest that they will not/and can not give tax cuts until spending savings are made.
Reform proposed tax cuts are now admitted to just an ASPIRATION- AFTER £200bn saved from public spending, on top of any existing defect it inherits were it to win a GE.
The question is - where can Reform realistically find the £200bn savings it needs without blowing up the economy and decimating public services?
Question to Gransnetters, which public services, if any would you be happy to be downsized and how?
Can they be any worse?
LadyGracie
Can they be any worse?
Yes.
All political parties make claims about savings.
If you look at the Labour manifesto from 2024, it lists:
Changes within departmental spending plans
We have identified waste and other efficiencies which will be used to fund further public service priorities.
labour.org.uk/change/labours-fiscal-plan/
The difference is the used to fund public service priorities whereas Reform want(ed) to give tax cuts which would have favour the wealthy far more than the poorest.
PaynesGrey
All political parties make claims about savings.
If you look at the Labour manifesto from 2024, it lists:
Changes within departmental spending plans
We have identified waste and other efficiencies which will be used to fund further public service priorities.
labour.org.uk/change/labours-fiscal-plan/
The difference is the used to fund public service priorities whereas Reform want(ed) to give tax cuts which would have favour the wealthy far more than the poorest.
But it's all nonsense, paynesgrey, which ever party says it and whatever purposes they claim that 'saved money' is put to.
We have identified waste and other efficiencies which will be used to fund further public service priorities.
This is ridiculous. Governments have been imposing 'efficiency cuts' since 2015 and all we have now is crumbling public services. And a very discontented population. The Labour manifesto statement was just a way to disguise their intention to make further cuts.
How on earth does cutting public services in order to fund public service make any sense whatsoever?
I did try to address the Reform issue at 23.29 yesterday, as that seems to be what the OP wants to concentrate on.
I think perhaps things have happened a bit too quickly for Reform and they haven't had time to get their act together properly. The support they are getting is an indication of the strength of feeling in this country.
What is needed is for the current government to be suspended and a caretaker installed until the parties are ready for a General Election.
MaizieD
^Following through whist in power is a different kettle of fish, as those who have gone before them have found out.^
In the instance of Reform I'd far rather that we (i.e the UK) didn't get any opportunity to find out just what a disaster they would be in government.
Oh yes 👍🏻
mum2three
I think perhaps things have happened a bit too quickly for Reform and they haven't had time to get their act together properly. The support they are getting is an indication of the strength of feeling in this country.
What is needed is for the current government to be suspended and a caretaker installed until the parties are ready for a General Election.
The current UK government was democratically elected, why on earth should they be suspended?
Disclaimer - I didn’t vote for them
I agree that Reform hasn't got its act together properly but also with Grannygravy that the current government was democratically elected and thus remains in office until the next GE.
Simply an aspiration? That's alright then...
mum2three
I think perhaps things have happened a bit too quickly for Reform and they haven't had time to get their act together properly. The support they are getting is an indication of the strength of feeling in this country.
What is needed is for the current government to be suspended and a caretaker installed until the parties are ready for a General Election.
So who do you think that ‘caretaker’ should be?
Reform would be much worse in gov't, they have a lot of ex Tories amongst them and the electorate threw them out in disgust at the last election because of the decimation they had made to our welfare state, especially the NHS.
Someone said to me that Farage was to Tory as Corbyn was to Labour, just too extreme.
I sincerely hope they never get in power, Farage says the NHS needs reform by which I believe he means cuts, they can afford private health care and don't want to contribute any part of their money to someone else's health.
Brexit has been an expensive mistake, I can't see why anyone would trust Farage with our money
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