Disgust - The Reform party Racist Sarah Pochlin

so there was not, IMO, a problem with anyone in the cast being black.
No problem, though spurious, in that respect at all IMO, but what I'm trying to say is that forced diversity is not a good thing. That it is contrived.

Many of the black actresses we see on the London stage are brought in from abroad. Some are home grown and educated, but on the whole, these are fewer because the cost of achieving the necessary qualifications here is prohibitive. Most drama schools charge around £20k a year to do a BA (Hons).
I have been told that several of the black wives in Six had successful careers like doctors or lawyers before they were casted, so they are hardly representative of the UK black community who can't afford a place at Drama School. I think we have to be careful what direction this is going in, especially in the theatre. It's searching out talent from elsewhere in order to meet the black quota (though of course no producer is going to admit to that).

Why people have to see racism in every comment they disagree with, beats me.

It wasn’t about race Doodledg, but her physical appearance was very much part of her story and the reason she was both desired and castigated as a witch.

I guess you could argue that it would then be appropriate to cast someone who may have experienced both of those.

But I think historical people, who were real people with their own stories, should be respected and should be portrayed as closely as possible to who they were.

I suppose the further they are from the present the less important it seems and yet it still concerns some of us. Hence the Richard III Society and it’s fight to eradicate his inaccurate image.

It’s a matter of authenticity and respect.

Fiction is not accurate at all, and much of history is fiction based around actual events.

Apart from glaring unaccuracy

Lathyrus3

A drama about Nelson Mandela would be about “universal themes” of injustice, oppression, triumph over adversity.

All universal themes.

So your argument that this is what makes it acceptable for any actor to take on a role also applies here.

No, it would be about Apartheid, which was a system based entirely on race. It would be entirely pointless to ignore that in a portrayal of Nelson Mandela.

The story of Henry VIII and his wives was not about race, so there was not, IMO, a problem with anyone in the cast being black.

Somehow I didn’t expect you to be saying that…..

Wyllow3

Maremia

SIX is a modern musical, not an historical documentary.

What is all the fuss about then? All kinds of books and dramatic work take a bit of history and work up a drama loosely based on it, been going on forever.

So it would be ok to take a bit of black history, work it up and cast people of any race in the roles.

Jolly good.

Maremia

SIX is a modern musical, not an historical documentary.

What is all the fuss about then? All kinds of books and dramatic work take a bit of history and work up a drama loosely based on it, been going on forever.

vegansrock

Wouldn’t the world be wonderful if no one cared what skin / hair/ eye colour anyone was.

Absolutely. I’ve heard plenty of nasty remarks about us gingers.

Maremia

SIX is a modern musical, not an historical documentary.

Looking forward to Mandela the Musical with the lead played by Michael Ball 🤷‍♀️

Maremia

SIX is a modern musical, not an historical documentary.

So they should have portrayed the six wives of a fictional character, Sir Joe Bloggs, who is a modern despot.

vegansrock

Wouldn’t the world be wonderful if no one cared what skin / hair/ eye colour anyone was.

What we need is a great bit melting pot?

Wouldn't that be boring?

SIX is a modern musical, not an historical documentary.

PaynesGrey

Allira

You missed out: in your opinion .

If that was to me then perhaps look up the reviews. Not just my opinion although I have a right to it as I saw the performances.

Reviews are opinions!

By the way, you'd better not go Allira, we wouldn't want you being shocked.) shocked 🙊

Should I take my pearls? 😀

GrannyGravy13

Babs03

I think when we are talking about white people playing the roles of black people fighting white supremacy it becomes a rather ridiculous scenario as well as offensive to black people.
White people have not suffered colonialism by black people so if a black person plays a white historical figure it doesn’t have the same connotations.

So it’s offensive to black people if a white person is cast as a black person.

On the other hand white people have just got accept black people playing a white historical figure.

No, it is just as offensive to white people, to have a white person portrayed as black.

Well said!

Wouldn’t the world be wonderful if no one cared what skin / hair/ eye colour anyone was.

Babs03

I think when we are talking about white people playing the roles of black people fighting white supremacy it becomes a rather ridiculous scenario as well as offensive to black people.
White people have not suffered colonialism by black people so if a black person plays a white historical figure it doesn’t have the same connotations.

So it’s offensive to black people if a white person is cast as a black person.

On the other hand white people have just got accept black people playing a white historical figure.

No, it is just as offensive to white people, to have a white person portrayed as black.

I think I agree with that statement on the whole Babs.

But I still think that real people ( even if long dead) have the right to be portrayed and have their story told authentically.

When it is changed to appease our modern ideas of how life should be, it loses authenticity and somehow dies violence to who that person was.

Six shows Henry's wives as modern women, which they were not.
Doodledog is correct here, that Six is a raunchy modern show brought into the 21st century, so things have been adapted. We have to suspend belief I guess. (By the way, you'd better not go Allira, we wouldn't want you being shocked.) 🙊

I'm glad Lathyrus agrees that the arts world allocates parts for reasons other than merit. I can't mention what I've been told by DGodD because it might out her, but she has been in West End productions for 20+ years, and has seen the castings change.
Of course, more black students are now accessing drama school or degree courses, that's good, so inevitably more will appear on stage, or in tv ads. That's fine. But it's the attitude that there "has to be" a black person, or two, or three, in the cast, plus the same back stage, that is wrong.

I think when we are talking about white people playing the roles of black people fighting white supremacy it becomes a rather ridiculous scenario as well as offensive to black people.
White people have not suffered colonialism by black people so if a black person plays a white historical figure it doesn’t have the same connotations.

Allira

You missed out: in your opinion .

If that was to me then perhaps look up the reviews. Not just my opinion although I have a right to it as I saw the performances.

Ah, OK Lathyrus3 I get your point, and agree.

If the person being portrayed is fictional unless their colour is pivotal to the plot it doesn’t matter what skin colour the actor has.

Historical figures, and real people should be played by an actor with the same skin colour otherwise the nuances would be lost.

GrannyGravy13

Lathyrus3

A drama about Nelson Mandela would be about “universal themes” of injustice, oppression, triumph over adversity.

All universal themes.

So your argument that this is what makes it acceptable for any actor to take on a role also applies here.

No I disagree.

White historical character roles should be protected just the same as you are advocating for protection of black historical roles.

Umm. Think you’re misreading me or I haven’t made myself clear.

Wyllow argument was that it was ok to cast black actors in the role of white English Queens because the drama would be about universal themes.

I was pointing out that the same argument would apply to white actors taking in black roles that if that drama also had universal themes.

I think the point that Mandelas racewas the driving factor in the drama is a much better, indeed irrefutable reason for his role to be played only by a black actor.

But I would also argue that Anne Bolelyns physical appearance was a driving factor in both her becoming Queen and in her persecution and execution.

To remove that significant factor from her story is contemptuous of her as a real historical figure.

You missed out: in your opinion .