The man formerly known as Prince can fall no further....

TerriBull

It must have been very difficult for the King, I think he has shown strength in doing the right thing. He and Andrew illustrate just how different siblings can be, Charles was a shy and diffident child, Andrew bumptious and full of himself from his earliest years and seemingly a trait that was never reined in. The speculation had been when he finally exited the Royal Lodge he would be moving into Frogmore Cottage on the Windsor estate, but they obviously want him further away in Norfolk, even if they are all gathered there for Christmas. Wonder where Sarah is going to live now? The body language of the royals towards Andrew when they were gathered for the late Duchess of Kent's funeral certainly spoke volumes.

There is jolly nice modernised ex-council house for sale in the East Midlands right now, with large secluded garden and two bathrooms.

a trait that was never reined in and not doing so hasn't done him any favours in the long run has it TerriBull.

We should believe women when they say a crime has been committed against them

What other evidence would we need?

We must always remember that reports made about abuse are almost always the truth. False reports are extremely rare.

Usually the only people who would lie about being abused are actually the perpetrators of abuse. Then it is generally quite easy to spot because they will have a victim saying the opposite and when spoken to it is easy to see the truth.

Just remembering “The Queen and I” the book by Sue Townsend satirising the Queen moving into a council house and living on benefits when a republican government abolished the monarchy. So maybe Andrew should be sent a copy?

I feel sorry for Beatrice and Eugenie in all this. They can't help having the parents they do, and it must be hard for them.

What the Royal Family does with their own, private finances surely should be private just as ours is?

None of us can keep our Wills secret. Then royals can - so money gets passed between them without us knowing. There can be no defensible reason for that exclusive privilege.

The only thing we know about Andrew is that he was pally with a sex offender

We know he blatantly lied on TV about his relationship with a paedophile. We know royal security and palace officials are embroiled in keeping his relationship with Giuffre a secret and using these officials to 'dig up dirt' to try to discredit her. We know he has been involved with significantly dodgy characters across the globe to get money, we know he has abused public money in his role as 'Special Representative for Trade and Investment' and no known benefits to the economy can from his jet setting. There are plenty on record reporting on his embarrassing behaviour on those trips. More will come out.

It wouldn't surprise me, if investigated robustly and transparently, if many of his dodgy dealings come back to bite him on the bum.

Sunninghill languished on the market, overpriced and with the "Southyork" or "Tesco" label. Then he gets in cahoots with the President of Kazakhstan and lo and behold - along comes the President's sil and pays 3 million over the asking price. Rates for mates? Aka serious money laundering.

It was upsetting watching Giuffre being interviewed and seeing her distress, on the BBC news today. At the time a bit of me wondered if she was acting, but now I understand that her distress was absolutely real.

How can these buggers live with themselves.

So what would GNs like to happen re Andrew?
The media are doing the “digging up the dirt” bit, so there’s something else to look forward to, but what outcome would satisfy GNs ?
Imprisonment?
Suicide?
Attacks on SF? (I’m sure there’s a thread running about it being unreasonable to expect a wife to check everything her husband does.)
Exposés on his children?

Transparent investigations not possible for the royals, Camilla was attacked because Diana accused Charles, Camilla is still being verbally attacked. The press are at Windsor and Sandringham waiting at the gates. Posts speak of his arrogance, not a crime, even dispatching him to another country, there is gloating too, justice ?

InRainbows

We should believe women when they say a crime has been committed against them

What other evidence would we need?

Sorry, but don’t agree with that at all.Women can and do lie about all sorts of things, just as men do.
Evidence is needed for any crime.

Whitewavemark2

It was upsetting watching Giuffre being interviewed and seeing her distress, on the BBC news today. At the time a bit of me wondered if she was acting, but now I understand that her distress was absolutely real.

How can these buggers live with themselves.

I have some doubts.

Apparently in her book she says that her Father abused her, and he drove her to the interview with Epstein and Maxwell, there both Epstein and Maxwell raped her.
Yet she still went to work for them? I think she was a victim but was also somewhat disturbed and delusional as time went on in her life.

The simple fact is he entertained very dubious folk at Royal palaces, lied on camera about knowing people, sent some very dubious emails to his dubious friends, both he and his wife have lived rent free, skiving off family and friends for years and years and been involved in some awfully “iffy” business deals.

No one will actually come forward and bring any kind of personal prosecution, they would be “shut down” by The Firm, or paid.

No one pays £12m to shut some up they “don’t recollect meeting”.

The photograph of Giuffre and Andrew, her eyes are joyful, she kept the photograph, perhaps distress hadn’t set in then

Oreo

Apparently in her book she says that her Father abused her, and he drove her to the interview with Epstein and Maxwell, there both Epstein and Maxwell raped her.
Yet she still went to work for them? I think she was a victim but was also somewhat disturbed and delusional as time went on in her life.

With an abusive father, he possibly put pressure on her to get a job, she was still pretty young then.

Not after you’ve just been raped at an interview by two people, sorry, I don’t buy it.

Cossy

The simple fact is he entertained very dubious folk at Royal palaces, lied on camera about knowing people, sent some very dubious emails to his dubious friends, both he and his wife have lived rent free, skiving off family and friends for years and years and been involved in some awfully “iffy” business deals.

No one will actually come forward and bring any kind of personal prosecution, they would be “shut down” by The Firm, or paid.

No one pays £12m to shut some up they “don’t recollect meeting”.

Yes, they would, it’s small potatoes to them and worth it to stop any damage to the RF and Andrew.
The other things you mention aren’t actual crimes.

And we still wonder why more women don't come forward to report crimes of rape or sexual assault...

Women can’t be believed without some evidence, it may be a problem for them if they only come forward much later but a man can’t be convicted merely by another’s word on the matter.Where several women come forward it helps of course.
Any rape victim, female or male must go straight to the police where the evidence can be seen and the trail is hot.It’s really important.

There has been a number of documentaries outlining Epstein’s and Maxwell’s mode of operation.

They invariably targeted vulnerable schoolgirls in poor neighbourhoods. They played on this vulnerability and knew exactly what they were doing.

This was backed up in the court case, and will be outlined in the Epstein files, along with powerful individuals using and abusing these girls.

I recommend that you watch them. One was available on Netflix and excellent.

I don’t see how Andrew can be prosecuted. VG is dead so can’t give evidence. So far as I’m aware, the other Epstein victims have named perpetrators but not Andrew. I may be wrong about this. Strangely Mr Trump isn’t releasing the Epstein files.

Sex offenders in positions of power are rarely brought to Court

If you rape a girl at interview stage no girl would take the job!