Brexit has cost billions and stifled hriwth
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Love the longer hair Rachel and the smiles!
(197 Posts)I did. Now waiting for the analysis of the speech. Are the news outlets up to it, I wonder? They are so used to just trashing people's reputations. At least we have some good on-line analysts.
Growth!
Reform Inland Revenue. It has become the greatest disincentive to work.
Some people would love to blame Labour for austerity, Brexit and the last tory government.
Brilliant PaynesGrey. A good bit of rational thinking. Thank you.
I've just heard a Canadian saying that his country stood together whatever their party politics. That healthcare has it's problems there but it's free: there's a compassion there, that it's compounded in their DNA. That they have this quiet sensibility of community, a unique sense of nation. I would have once said this about the UK but now people just seem to want to be angry, as if unjustified anger ever solved anything.
GrannyGravy13
ronib
Why does anyone care what a party with 5 MPs would do when discussing a Labour budget?
It just feeds into the myth that Reform is omnipotent…
Well, The other day Farages picture was on the front page of the Times, I turned on the tv and he was on and when I turned it on again later Sky News had a feature about Reforms plans for the economy. It’s as if it’s inevitable that they will form the next government.
vegansrock
EU countries may be in the doldrums but are still doing better than us.
This country has never and will never recover from Brexit. Started on a whim by Cameron and fueled by racists.
Still we've got our sovereignty.
DaisyAnne, your post resonated with me.
I have family in Norway, and feel that there is a general consensus that the people are " in it together", and are comfortable with their high- tax, good - welfare life. My SIL has done work for one of the wealthiest men in the country, who pays an eye- watering amount of tax, but is sure that his government uses it wisely. He says that " only wimps don't pay tax"
Yes, I am aware of the different monetary theories and that there are other ways but this is the way that goverments do it - they treat the economy as books that have to be balanced.
There are indeed 'other theories' but the one that is correct, and is backed by the work of several disciplines, such as archaeology, historical study, and anthropology as well as empirical economic analysis (I emphasise empirical because a great deal of economic theory is based on assumptions which have very little, or nothing at all, to do with reality), is that a state's money is issued by its sovereign authority. There can be no taxation unless the state has issued money into the economy.
Which makes everything that most people understand about how the national economy works a complete myth.
Yes, we have to live with that myth but there is nothing to say that it is an immutable system that has to exist in perpetuity. We can back, even vote for people who challenge that myth (because it is a political myth) and make an effort to understand what is wrong with the myth.
The capitalist system in which we live depends on consumers (that's everyone who buys anything, both individuals, institutions and the state)) for profits and growth. the prime reason for lack of growth in our economy is the fact that a very significant number of consumers are becoming more and more impoverished or are only able to afford the basic necessities of life. This doesn't just affect the poor but is extending upwards into the previously 'comfortable' middle classes (as Gary Stevenson has spent a great deal of tome pointing out over the past few years)
Companies will not invest in creating new businesses, or enlarging current businesses if they don't see any prospect of increasing their profits by doing so I do not understand why so many people, including our government ministers, the Treasury and the Bank of England, cannot recognise this very elementary point.
Reeves has it all in reverse. She thinks that the UK needs more investment from the private sector in order to grow the economy. Why should that sector bother if it has no prospect of increasing its business and profits?
In the 1930s depression the US President, Rooseveldt, injected state money into the economy to spend on projects which would provide employment and maintain the private sector. The US economy grew far better under this regime than did other economies affected by the Depression. Post WW2 the UK government spent. Growth was good (an the inequality gap narrowed considerably) Government spending to lift an economy out of depression was advocated by Keynes, one of the foremost 20th C economists. He was correct. It worked.
We have a costly ageing popualtion, around a quarter of the working age population not working and around 30% of children living in poverty.
And the answer to this is that the government should be spending. Money the government spends into the economy creates growth. It pays consumers' wages, it supports private enterprise because the government sources everything it needs from the private sector, and because it supports the private sector it allows them to increase their production and to create more jobs.
It should also be doing much more by regulation and taxation, to stop the wealthy sucking up much of the money the state spends.
The government can spend what it needs to spend because it is the government that creates the money needed not the 'taxpayer'
How would critics address all this?
Obviously the government should spend and grow the economy thus making it more attractive for private sector investment.
I suspect that all Reeves' budget will do is make the UK poorer; push more people into poverty, destroy more businesses and keep the public sector crumbling.
No other party (apart, perhaps from the Greens) would do any better because they all believe the same myths and economic fantasies.
P.S Apparently Henry Ford paid his workers very good wages because 'how else were they gong to be able to afford to buy my cars'?
That's empirical economics...
As Rachel Reeves consistently blames the 22 billion black hole for this Government's poor performance and broken promises DaisyAnneReturns, IMO the onus is on them to prove it, not for anyone else to disprove their claim.
There is not doubt that the tories left the economy in a bad way because of their constant austerity, from 2010 until 2024, but Reeves is going to continue with austerity.
The only black hole is in her brain.
Of course you do Smileless. Of course you do.
If RR taxes the working man (whoever the working man is, as Labour have been unable to define him )that will not improve things.
Less money in people’s pockets, means they will spend less in the economy.
Those with money will not invest in a stagnant shrinking economy.
The austerity wheel just keeps on turning…
PaynesGrey
'Reeves increased employers NIC from 13.8% to 15% a 1.2% increase'
I make that an 8.7% increase!
GrannyGravy13
If RR taxes the working man (whoever the working man is, as Labour have been unable to define him )that will not improve things.
Less money in people’s pockets, means they will spend less in the economy.
Those with money will not invest in a stagnant shrinking economy.
The austerity wheel just keeps on turning…
I think you and I should be running the economy, GG13 
MaizieD not sure the U.K. is ready for that 😹
The only black hole is in her brain good one Maizie
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Don't you just love Gransnet 🤗
DaisyAnnRetruns loves Rachel's longer hair and smiles. On the Chat forum another poster's OP- "Is the stress getting to Rachel Reeves" because her hair this morning was not well groomed.
As they say- there's two sides to every story>
dayvidg
PaynesGrey
'Reeves increased employers NIC from 13.8% to 15% a 1.2% increase'
I make that an 8.7% increase!
How?
Chocolatelovinggran
DaisyAnne, your post resonated with me.
I have family in Norway, and feel that there is a general consensus that the people are " in it together", and are comfortable with their high- tax, good - welfare life. My SIL has done work for one of the wealthiest men in the country, who pays an eye- watering amount of tax, but is sure that his government uses it wisely. He says that " only wimps don't pay tax"
Yes, CLG.
I used to work with teachers from Sweden, who were over here on exchange. They were also comfortable with the high taxes in their country. They understood the value of public services and the contribution their taxes make to the public good. They viewed paying tax as a ‘national duty’ rather than something to ‘wriggle out of’.
Good for them; I wish we in the UK could engender more of this approach.
The big story is that some freelance workers have been made liable to pay both the employer’s NIC and the employee’s….. this defies all logic but there we are!
Nice hair shame about some\ many of her policies!
At least she's relatively approachable unlike the very precious, pretentious Ms fillet steak, Kemi!
Oddly MrIlovedogs goes all unnecessary when Kemi graces us with her rarefied presence on the box! 🤔
ronib
The big story is that some freelance workers have been made liable to pay both the employer’s NIC and the employee’s….. this defies all logic but there we are!
Ah! You need to understand why umbrella companies came about. Go back to Tory tax policy in the 1990s and the tax avoidance that resulted from that to understand what is happening now.
www.fcsa.org.uk/the-genesis-of-umbrella-companies/
The Labour goverment is taking steps to change things:
www.gov.uk/government/publications/umbrella-companies-tackling-non-compliance-in-the-umbrella-company-market/umbrella-companies-tackling-non-compliance-in-the-umbrella-company-market
1p on income tax would go a way towards improving public services. However, governments are terrified of the backlash that will be caused because no one wants to pay more tax, yet they moan like hell when there are potholes and there are long NHS waiting lists. Anyone who thinks Brexit has had no effect on our economy is seriously deluded.
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